Podcast Episodes

Want to know how your culture can give your business an edge? Just ask Mayra Luz Colon, the founder of Healthy Rican, who fused her Puerto Rican roots with her passion for healthy living to create a successful line of mom-approved seasonings. Mayra shares how she overcame imposter-syndrome, connected with her community, and pivoted from coaching to creating a product that resonated with so many people. You’ll also hear from Ramiro Cavazos, CEO of the United States Hispanic Chamber of Commerce (USHCC), who’ll dive into how Hispanic-owned businesses are shaping the future of entrepreneurship despite the challenges they face and how the USHCC is helping entrepreneurs get access to more capital, contracts and connections, and the tools and resources they need to grow their businesses.

In this special Hispanic Heritage Month episode, you’ll discover the importance of staying connected to your roots, how to build a strong community around your brand, and why empowering Hispanic-owned businesses benefits everyone.

In this episode you’ll hear:

(2:06) How a health issue inspired Mayra to start her business

(4:27) Why Mayra pivoted to a product based business

(6:06) How to get customer feedback and build a supportive community

(8:52) The growth and impact of Hispanic businesses and what makes them stand out

(10:15) How the United States Hispanic Chamber of Commerce (USHCC) is helping Latino entrepreneurs overcome the challenges they face by focusing on the 3 C’s: access to capital, building connections, and capacity building

(14:50) Why supporting Hispanic-owned businesses benefits everyone

(16:13) How resilience and being open to pivoting can help you build a successful business

Key lessons:

1 - Turn personal challenges into business opportunities: If you’ve faced a problem that no one else is solving, that might just be your golden business idea. Like Mayra from Healthy Rican, who turned her health struggles into a thriving business, so make sure you think about gaps in the market that align with your personal experiences. What challenge can you transform into an opportunity?

2 - Leverage your community for feedback: Your community is a powerful resource—use it! Mayra built trust with her customers by staying in close communication and seeking feedback through email surveys. Engage your audience to fine-tune your products and ideas. The better you listen, the better you serve.

3 - Embrace authenticity: Don't feel like you have to present a picture-perfect brand. Sharing your real journey, including your missteps, can build deeper trust. Mayra’s transparency about her business struggles actually made her customers more loyal. Authenticity is a powerful way to connect with your audience.

4 - Stay open to pivoting: When Mayra saw a growing demand for her seasonings, she shifted from coaching to a product-based business. Flexibility is key in entrepreneurship. Be ready to adapt your business model when new opportunities arise—you never know where they’ll lead.

5 - Seek support: Don’t be afraid to ask for help. Ramiro says that networking and mentorship can provide you with access to capital and essential resources. The right support can be a game-changer.

6 - Your background can be your biggest asset: Ramiro points out that Hispanic entrepreneurs bring cultural insights and a global perspective that not many can’t replicate. So, lean into your roots to make your business stand out in a crowded market.

00:00:01

Andrea Marquez: A lot of small businesses are born out of a deep connection to community, culture, and identity. For Hispanic entrepreneurs, these roots often run even deeper, influencing everything from the products they create to the customers they serve. I got to see this firsthand, not only with my own family who are all small business owners, but also in the community I grew up in. I was surrounded by Hispanic-owned businesses. So I've seen the influence and the impact that they have. But don't just take my word for it. Here's Ramiro Cavazos, president and CEO of the United States Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, also known as the USHCC.

00:00:41

Ramiro Cavazos: If the 65 million Latinos were our own country, out of the 338 million, we would be the fifth-largest economy in the world. And to put a cherry on top, we're a very young population, and so we represent the business future.

00:01:00

Andrea Marquez: And yet, despite all this?

00:01:02

Ramiro Cavazos: The challenges that Latino-owned businesses face are challenges that all businesses face. It just so happens that they are multiplied for our Latino-owned businesses because research has shown Latino entrepreneurs or applicants for loans get turned down more often.

00:01:19

Andrea Marquez: So how can Hispanic-owned businesses navigate the unique challenges they face from access to capital, to representation? What does it take to turn that cultural connection into a thriving business? And what can we learn from their stories of resilience and innovation? We're here to explore these questions in celebration of Hispanic Heritage Month.

Hi, I'm Andrea Marquez, and This is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Today we'll be getting into the essential role that Hispanic-owned businesses play in the US. We'll first hear from Mayra Luz Colón, the founder of Healthy Rican, and she shares her journey of blending culture and wellness into a thriving business.

00:02:07

Mayra Luz Colón: As a Puerto Rican, I wanted to start eating healthier. I couldn't find much out there. I couldn't find many resources when it came to making Puerto Rican foods in a healthier way. I've been suffering through a lot of autoimmune issues ever since my early 20s, so I know what it feels like. I've been diagnosed with thyroid issues, Hashimoto's, which is the autoimmune. Unfortunately, in 2017, I was diagnosed with chronic Lyme disease, which is the big mimicker of autoimmune. So I completely understand what it feels like, and I found that there was a lot of women out there, especially Latina women that suffer with all of these illnesses and just don't know what to do with themselves. So I started recreating my foods in a healthier way. And with that, a lot of people just wanted to know what I was doing.

00:02:58

Andrea Marquez: And that led Mayra to write her own cookbook, Healthy Rican: Put the Latin Spice in Your Healthy Life!, and eventually expand into selling her own line of seasonings. But the journey wasn't an easy one.

00:03:10

Mayra Luz Colón: I suffered with a lot of imposter syndrome. I feel like in that health and wellness space, there wasn't many Latinas. So with that, I felt the need. I'm like, "Wait a minute, I just can't be alone. There has to be other people out there that are interested in nutrition and health and wellness." So it was really important to me to introduce my culture. For many, many years, I was sharing about nutrition and my own journey and things like that, but I was never talking specifically about our cultural foods. When I did, people were really interested and I started talking about the seasonings because particularly the seasonings, I couldn't find anything in stores that would fit my needs. I couldn't find anything that didn't have artificial colors in them or a lot of sodium or preservatives, artificial ingredients, and just things that just didn't resonate with me. So I started creating my own. I've been doing them for many, many years just for myself, for my own household. And when I shared that I was thinking about launching this, people were just like, "Yes, when are you doing this? Because I want some."

00:04:20

Andrea Marquez: Mayra decided to listen to our customers and pivoted to a product-based business.

00:04:24

Andrea Marquez: That journey was tough because I had to move away and step back from coaching and from helping people. That is where my heart truly is at. I just love helping people. And wherever we see changes in people's lives, it feeds my soul. So to launch a product-based business, which mind you, I had no idea what I was doing, was tough. I remember there was a lot of testing involved. I would make a batch and add the salt or whatever seasonings, actually cook with them. I would make two different batches and just have my family try it and be like, "Which one do you like best?" For me, it was really important to have my mom's stamp of approval. I felt like I can't be launching anything out there that is not approved by my mom because she taught me how to cook, her food is amazing, and she's very particular.

The first time she came over, I didn't have a business yet, it was just me with my own blend and a little mason jar, and she's like, "Mayra, where's your sazon?" She was making beans or rice or something, and I gave her this little ... And she says, "What's this?" And like, "That's my sazon. I made it." She's like, "It's not going to taste the same." I'm like, "Well, just try it. Let me know what you think." The food was amazing. She's definitely one of the first people that I give a sample to, “Do your magic. Let me know what you think.”

00:05:48

Andrea Marquez: If it has mom stamp of approval, then you know it's good to go. But Mayra also had to get feedback from another important group of people who pushed her to start selling her seasonings: her customers.

00:06:00

Mayra Luz Colón: So I do email. Those are my insiders. I always say anything that I'm going to do, they find out first. I send them an email. I create a survey, so it's really easy. They can answer it in under a minute. And then after that, then I go to social media, and I share there. But email is definitely number one.

00:06:18

Andrea Marquez: The community that Mayra had managed to build was a big reason why she kept on going when things got tough. And the key to fostering such a strong and supportive customer base was clear and consistent communication.

00:06:29

Mayra Luz Colón: Like I said, I did not have a perfect journey. I was just learning along the way and sharing the journey with people. Every time I made a mistake or something happened, I would just go live, like, "Hey, this happened. Hey, we ran out of sazon. I'm sorry." And I would just be really real with people. And I think by doing that, I just gained people's trust and was able to build that foundation that has set me up to have a solid business.

00:06:57

Andrea Marquez: Mayra's journey is a powerful example of turning a personal challenge into a successful business, a path we've seen many entrepreneurs take on this small business, and it's something that Ramiro Cavazos points out as well.

00:07:09

Ramiro Cavazos: I believe that the cause of innovation sometimes comes from challenges. We have seen that because of COVID-19 in '20 and '21, that many folks lost their employment, but it also brought about businesses, especially Latino and Latina-owned businesses that made that adjustment. They started using online platforms, using the internet to provide retail and growth opportunities. So innovation comes from a necessity, and we've seen many of our Latino businesses are growing businesses at six times the rate of other women who are not Latinas. And I believe that the growth we've seen since '20 and '21 has been astounding.

00:08:01

Andrea Marquez: And just like Mayra, Ramiro says that many of these businesses pivoted into other paths that they might not have considered before. When it comes to Hispanic-owned businesses, there are several other unique qualities that set them apart from others.

00:08:14

Ramiro Cavazos: We're a younger population. We're trying new things. We're using technology and innovation, artificial intelligence, and this is an exciting time for business. We're also a community that has done better because we think globally, we speak multiple languages, and that's where online platforms and e-commerce come in. And for us, we're seeing that Latinos and Latinas are embracing that. In the last few years, Hispanic entrepreneurs, they've generated startups that do business online compared to the general population and they were even before the advent of artificial intelligence or even before COVID-19. But as far as businesses, many of them that are doing business, a lot of them are doing e-commerce by focusing on financial services in many instances, also advertising, marketing, building websites, doing translation services. There's so many things. They may not be able to have a job, they may not be able to secure something because maybe of a minor language barrier, but they're starting their own businesses.

00:09:25

Andrea Marquez: Despite their growth and impact, Ramiro says that Latino-owned businesses face challenges that are disproportionately greater than those encountered by other businesses. And that's where the United States Hispanic Chamber of Commerce steps in.

00:09:37

Ramiro Cavazos: We focus on three things: access to capital, access to building more connections, contracts for our businesses, and the third is capacity building. The first one is, we have looked at the data. Large banks and regional banks lend less to Latino-owned businesses that apply for small business loans. That is something that we need to share with everyone and make aware that that is actually affecting the overall economy. It's people who are ready to grow, scale and create jobs, and oftentimes they are not provided the capital that they need for whatever reason. We need to change that and make it better.

00:10:23

Andrea Marquez: Bridging that gap is beneficial for the country. Why do Hispanic-owned businesses face higher loan rejection rates and what can be done about that?

00:10:31

Ramiro Cavazos: It's a lack of understanding and belief that these businesses will succeed, especially based on the location where they are as a business. They're not your typical suburban, near, newer, more developed areas of retail that are favored by some of the larger banks and the regional bank. So we feel that it's just education that we need to provide, and having more Latinos and Latinos serve on bank boards and regional bank boards. Many of them do not have the diversity in the loan committees that make these decisions.

00:11:10

Andrea Marquez: Another challenge that Ramiro mentioned that Hispanic-owned businesses face is building more connections.

00:11:16

Ramiro Cavazos: We also want to let the US government know and Fortune 1000 firms across the country know that they need to do more business with Latino-owned businesses. We have the skill set and the talent. Again, providing capital would be critical to helping them be in position to do part of the work that the US government needs. Along with Fortune 1000 firms, we have great marketing firms, cyber firms, construction firms, I could go on and on. We're in every field and over indexed in numerous categories, but we only received less than 2% of the business that the US government awards annually. And that's also true for Fortune 1000 firms. That is unacceptable when we are 20% of the population. The third area is really getting our businesses who are just starting out to have the tools. Las herramientas, as we say in Spanish, to have the skills to do business, we just need to help them be in position to get certified and to know how to put a proposal together, and that's where capacity building comes in.

00:12:24

Andrea Marquez: This reminds me of what Mayra mentioned about learning about building a business as she went. Oftentimes, Hispanic-owned businesses are not set up for success. Ramiro says, solutions to more Hispanic-owned businesses start with three Cs.

00:12:38

Ramiro Cavazos: More capital, more contracts and connections, and more capacity building. That's what we do, and that's what every business needs. But, we focus on helping our five million Latino and Latina-owned businesses. The role that we are playing is by serving as a bridge to those communities that we are located in. We have a national association that I have the honor to work with, but these individual chambers have memberships. They have board of directors, they have relationships to the local banks, to the local communities, to local government, and each of them is an economic oasis for those communities. During COVID, they became emergency rooms for small business to find out where contracts existed, where they could find resources, where they could hire people or where they could gain an access capital. So we are all about family in our Latino community as everyone knows, but we've created a family of small business assistance centers throughout the country through our Hispanic chambers.

00:13:48

Andrea Marquez: To sum it all up, empowering and supporting Hispanic-owned businesses comes with a lot of benefits, not just for the entrepreneurs starting or growing their businesses, but for the entire country.

00:13:59

Ramiro Cavazos: It behooves corporate America to do more business with us because we are the growing consumer base for the future. We're the vendors of the future that can give them value in who they hire to do their marketing advertising or to provide catering services at their headquarters.

00:14:17

Andrea Marquez: It's very inspiring to hear everything that the USHCC is doing for Hispanic-owned businesses, because as a border child myself, I've seen that influence and impact of Hispanic-owned businesses firsthand because I grew up seeing Hispanic-owned businesses everywhere. Right? So for me, it was normal. But then I went to college in New York, and that changed my perspective a little. And then I went to Boston for school again, and that changed my perspective as well. There wasn't the same concentration of Hispanic-owned businesses that I was used to, but I also got to see how these communities were growing and how they were also being given resources to expand their brands. And for me, I feel like I've seen the gradual growth and support of these businesses, but I'm also aware of how much we still have to go. So what advice would you give aspiring Latino entrepreneurs, especially with the challenges they might face as they try to build their business?

00:15:17

Ramiro Cavazos: Achieving the American dream is to do it and to do it without hesitation. If you looked at the Fortune 500 firms in this country, 43% of those firms were started and founded by an immigrant or the son or the daughter of an immigrant. And like you, I was born along the US-Mexico border, and everyone was entrepreneurial. It was natural on both sides of the border. My family was entrepreneurial, and it was just something that we did naturally and instinctively. But my advice would be to do it without hesitation, to ask for help, to know that there are groups like the US Hispanic Chamber and their local affiliate that is a part of our chamber that are there to help give them that equitable resources with their local banks for capital.

Last point I would make is, there is not a successful billionaire or a CEO of any company in this economy in America that has not had several business failures as a part of their resume. You need to learn how to succeed by failing. Many of our entrepreneurs that have been incredibly successful, nobody knows the story that they might've had one or two businesses they started that didn't succeed, but they did not give up. They kept on going. And that's the advice I would give to our Latino and Latino-owned businesses, is to move forward and know that you will learn from your challenges and overcome those.

00:16:53

Andrea Marquez: Know that you'll face challenges, but will overcome them, like Mayra, who ended up finding a lot of success because she went all in without hesitation and pivoted when things didn't work out.

00:17:06

Mayra Luz Colón: My journey started in middle school. I was always the one girl selling something, and people that know me know that about me. I sold anything and everything. And I think it wasn't until I truly, truly started following my heart and my gut. I remember I used to be in this other business, and I just kind of flat out quit one day out of nowhere. People were like, "What happened?" I'm like, "It's not my calling." And I need to pursue what I have in my heart.

At that time, I felt in my soul that I needed to go back to school and get the certification to be a nutrition health coach. I just felt that that was my passion. And with that, again, came really embracing my culture. What do you know best? What do you cook 90% of the time? It's going to be Puerto Rican food. So I think following your heritage is great. I think being super authentic and being who you are. I always tell people, show up as you. Don't try to imitate anybody that's out there doing something. They might be great and you might be super inspired and motivated, but you have to be who you are because that's what really resonates with people.

00:18:18

Andrea Marquez: Lean into what makes you you, important words to end on this episode, and that can apply to every entrepreneur. Mayra and Ramiro gave us a ton of helpful information. If you missed anything, don't worry, we've taken notes for you. You can find them at www.smallbusiness.amazon/podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode. And I'd love to know what you think, so send us an email at thisissmallbusiness@amazon.com or leave us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts with your thoughts. Maybe you'll get to hear your review on the show.

That's it for this episode of This is Small Business, brought to you by Amazon. Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta luego, and thanks for listening.  

This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.

Ever wondered how to make influencer marketing a game-changer for your small business? Just ask Brittany Hennessy, the bestselling author of "INFLUENCER: Building Your Personal Brand In The Age of Social Media." Brittany reveals how small businesses can leverage the power of influencers to enhance their brand, reach new audiences, and drive sales. Whether you're new to the influencer marketing scene or looking to refine your approach, Brittany's insights can help you navigate the ever-evolving world of influencer marketing.

Discover strategies for working with influencers, from understanding the different types of influencer marketing to finding a good match for your brand and maximizing conversions.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

(2:07) How starting a blog launched Brittany into the world of influencer marketing and led to her first brand trip.

(4:05) Three powerful ways to boost your brand through influencer marketing: content creation, community engagement, and driving conversions.

(6:25) How you can make influencer marketing work for your small business if you’re on a tight budget.

(7:49) Why picking the right influencer that aligns with your brand and goals is crucial for a successful campaign.

(9:10) Practical tips on how to find the perfect influencer that could take your business to the next level.

(10:53) How to reach out to influencers in a way that’ll make them excited to collaborate with you and build valuable partnerships.

‍

Key lessons:

1 - Brittany breaks down how you can leverage influencer marketing to boost your business in three ways. First, leverage influencers for content creation if you lack the time or resources to create consistent content for your social media pages. Second, tap into their community to engage with their audience. Third, focus on conversions by partnering with influencers who can drive sales. Not every influencer does all three, so make sure you align your goals with the right type of influencer.

2 - Making Influencer Marketing Work on a Budget: If you’re on a budget, Brittany’s advice is to prioritize influencers who focus on conversions. You can also find influencers who work on a commission basis, so you might only pay for results. This approach could make your investment more efficient and also ties your spending directly to sales.

3 - Find influencers that align with your brand: When searching for influencers, Brittany recommends that you look through your followers and existing customers for influencers that might already love your products. This often leads to more authentic and successful collaborations.

4 - Personalize Your Outreach: Instead of sending a generic pitch, take the time to craft personalized messages by acknowledging their unique needs or challenges then showing how your product can help. A thoughtful outreach can turn influencers into enthusiastic advocates for your brand and help you secure a collaboration.

5 - Aim High and Don’t Hesitate: Don’t be afraid to reach out to influencers with large followings if there’s a strong connection with your brand. Many big influencers are open to supporting small businesses especially when you can show them how your product solves a problem they care about.

00:00:01

Brittany Hennessy: Influencers are creators, but they have a different end game. Their end game is to convince you to do something, and that's usually to make a purchase. And so if you're a brand, what you do is you find an influencer who can reach your audience or creator whose content you really like. You hire them to create content around your product, and then depending on who you hired and what you hired them to do, you reap the benefits of having unlimited people at your disposal on the internet who can pretty much reach anyone, which is very cool, but very difficult to get right and very expensive when you get it wrong.

00:00:43

Andrea Marquez: Hi, I'm Andrea Marquez and This Is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. You've probably heard that influencer marketing can be a game changer for your small business, but how do you actually make it work? Today we're talking to Brittany Hennessy, the best-selling author of Influencer: Building Your Personal Brand in the Age of social media. She's been called the Influencer Whisperer and the fairy godmother of influencer marketing because she knows how to turn your online buzz into real-world results. With over 15 years of experience, Brittany is here to share how you can partner with the right influencers to elevate your brand, reach new audiences, and boost your sales.

00:01:22

Brittany Hennessy: I do influencer marketing and then influencer strategy for creators in the creator economy, which is very cool because I get to help brands and small businesses and influencers and the platforms that serve them all figure out how everyone can work together and help them achieve their goals. I love helping small businesses because that's how we get a lot of innovation and a lot of new products. It's because of small business that I think I can do this better. And so I'm always happy to help small businesses hit whatever goals they need so they can stay in business and connect them to influencers who like working with small businesses because there are definitely a lot of them.

00:02:00

Andrea Marquez: Before Brittany entered the world of influencer marketing, she was trying to keep her writing sharp by starting a blog after she graduated from journalism school.

00:02:08

Brittany Hennessy: My blog was about New York nightlife and I didn't really think anyone was reading it, which just goes to show you, you never know. You only really need one person to be reading your stuff for anything to happen.

00:02:20

Andrea Marquez: Then she got an email that said-

00:02:22

Brittany Hennessy: Hey, we love your blog. We are putting together a list of people to go on this trip. It was for a major skincare brand and it was in Germany. I said, we're putting together this list and about five people have told us that we have to send you on this trip, so we are pretty sure that you need to go. They asked me, “Do you have a passport?” I had never left the country at this point. I did not have a passport, but instead of telling them that, I said, “Yeah, I have a passport.” They're like, “Great, we leave in two days.”

And so now I'm frantically Googling, can you get a passport in two days and you can, especially in New York. And so I ran down, got my passport, and then two days later I was on a flight to Germany and then they paid me just to post about it and I could not believe I was getting paid for this.  

And then I was an ambassador for the brand for an entire year, and so religious showcasing their products and telling everybody how much I liked them, and I think that was the first time I had seen anything like that. And I loved it, and I said, “As much as I enjoy going on the trips, who planned this and how can I do some of that?” And so then I got deeper into social, deeper into influencer, and I've been here ever since.

00:03:35

Andrea Marquez: From a last-minute passport dash to showing up in Germany, that's influencer marketing in action. But beyond the glitz and glamour, there's more to working with influencers that small businesses can think about. To make the most of it, you need to understand the different ways you can work with influencers and how these approaches align with your business goals. Brittany breaks down how you can work with influencers in three ways. The first is through their content.

00:03:58

Brittany Hennessy: If you're a small business, you probably spend most of your time running your business. You don't necessarily have time to do reels and TikToks and YouTube because you're running a business. You have other things to do, but you can hire creators just to create content for you. And you'll hear people call that UGC, but I would say that's not entirely correct. UGC is usually your customer.  

So someone who bought your product, received it, posted some content, and it's like, “Oh my God, I love this.” But it's not professionally done. This isn't what they do for a living. It's very natural. I probably would call it like IGC. So it's influencer generated content or creator generated content. So you can hire them to make content for you, you can buy the rights to it and then you can post it on your socials, you can put it in your shop, you can send it in your digital marketing, but you're essentially hiring them as a content studio.

00:04:49

Andrea Marquez: The second is through their community.

00:04:51

Brittany Hennessy: And this is when you want to find someone very specific. So it might be you need someone who owns a dog or you need a parent or you need someone who travels a lot or someone who drives or someone who's decorating their home. Whatever it is, you need someone who's doing that because the chances are their audience is also doing that. And then we will buy your product. And so that's community tapping into the people, the influencer or creator talks to on a regular basis.

00:05:18

Andrea Marquez: And the third is through conversions.

00:05:20

Brittany Hennessy: You need people who can actually sell your product. And so that is a very specific type of influencer. So lots of people follow creators or influencers because the content is nice to look at or they're funny or it makes them feel good. Not everyone follows them to shop, but there is an influencer who they are shopping mavens and it's like going to any popular shopping program. You open their feed and they're like, “This is what I have.” They're telling you the measurements, the texture, what material it's made of. They are walking, talking, copy for your product. So those are the three ways to look at it. Do you need content? Do you need access to a community or do you need conversions? And the best influencers can do all three, but they're like unicorns. They're very hard to find.

00:06:07

Andrea Marquez: All three sounds super useful and important for any business, but if you're working with a tighter budget, Brittany says that you might want to prioritize conversions.

00:06:15

Brittany Hennessy: You can tie it directly to revenue because you can see this is how much I'm selling. And influencers who like commission tend to really just enjoy that piece. They don't necessarily need you to pay them some large amount to do it, but they will negotiate their commission rate with you. So they might say, “Hey, I'll do this, but I want 35% or 55% of the product.” And so those are even harder to find, but they exist. They exist, they're around.  

After that, I would pick content creation because the creator doesn't necessarily need to be in the content, so it tends to be more affordable. And then the most expensive one is access to their community. Sometimes it's the most beneficial depending on who you are and what you're selling, but you are paying them for the years of hard work that they have put in to build this community that will listen to them, which is why it costs the most.  

So I would go for conversions first, content second, community third, because sometimes if they really like the product and you hire them from conversions, they'll send you the content and they'll post it anyway just because it's what they do. So you might get lucky and get all three for the price of one.

00:07:24

Andrea Marquez: After you've set your goals, make sure the influencers you choose are the right partners to help you achieve them.

00:07:30

Brittany Hennessy: I think where people run into a lot of trouble is they hire someone who can get their audience to feel very good about a product, but what they really wanted was conversions. And so when they don't get conversions, they're like, “This thing was a flop.” When in reality you picked the wrong person for what you are trying to achieve. So that's why the most important thing is how will I know this is successful? And then it's because X will happen. Okay, great. If I need X to happen, who do I hire who can do X? And it's totally fine to just ask an influencer like, “Hey, my goal for this campaign is X, Y, Z. Can you help me do that?”

Because an influencer might say, “I love this product, but to be honest, I can't help you do that. What I can help you do is this other thing.” And then you can decide. But if you don't tell them that you don't give the influencer a chance to let you know that maybe they're not the best partner. And sometimes if they're not the best partner, they'll say, “I can't help you with conversions. I can help you with content, but my friend also loves your product and she's a conversion queen.” And so enough influencers know each other that they can give you a recommendation if you know exactly what you're looking for.

00:08:40

Andrea Marquez: And that leads us to our next point. How do you find these influencers?

00:08:45

Brittany Hennessy: So if you're a small business and you have some social channel, the odds that someone who is an influencer who already likes your brand is high. So I would always comb through all your followers, go through your mailing list and see if anyone's got a domain. Look at their website. If they are already an influencer and they like your brand, that's your easiest because they'll be so honored that you reached out to them. They'll be like, “Oh my God, I love you. How did you know?” So I tell people, look through your current customers first.  

If you've combed through that and you are like, we don't have any influencers, or maybe you don't have a strong social media presence yet, I would then go look at your competitors and see who follows them. Because if you have a better feature or your version is waterproof or something like that, that's a good audience of people who like something and may also like yours.

So I would go through and then I would make a list of influencers, and then I would take a look at the content they create and just see do they talk about other products? Are they tagging them? Is it sponsored? Just so you get an idea of if you approach them, will they say yes or no? Because outreach is the most difficult part about working with influencers, but you can really cut down on a lot of fruitless work if you really look through their profile and see what are the odds that this person would say yes based on how much of their profile looks like what you're trying to get them to do.

00:10:18

Andrea Marquez: Once you've identified a few influencers who align with your goals, the next step is to reach out to them.

00:10:23

Brittany Hennessy: It can seem efficient to have one email and send it to lots and lots and lots and lots of influencers and hope something sticks, that fire hose method. That doesn't work because it looks very spammy and it's just a waste of time because the only people who will respond to that are people who like free stuff and that's not really who you want. So I would say it's much better for you to take the time and it's painful, but if you do it right, you only have to do it once and come up with a solid list of influencers that you want to work with and write them individual letters.

It's very similar to applying for a job. You wouldn't just send the same cover letter and resume to everyone. You would tweak it for the specific position. You can write a very large influencer and say, “Hey, I saw this post that you made with your kid and you were saying you wish you had X, Y, and Z because it would make your life so much easier. Well, guess what? I made that product and I'd love to send it to you. And if you like it, it would mean the world to me if you share it with your audience because the more of these I solve, the more these I can make and I can keep solving this problem for moms like you.”

If I'm a big influencer, I'm like, first of all, you saw my content. Second of all, you solved my problem. Third of all, you want to send me a free one, which is great, and if I like it, I want to be able to buy it from you now in five years, in 10 years. So I want you to stay in business, and influencers can help you stay in business if you point out to them that you know a post from you could change my business, because it's true. There are so many influencers who want to pay it forward, so they would be willing to help a small business because they built this platform and now they're in a position to do so. You always hear advice to small businesses that's like start small because of your budget. You can do that.  

If you find someone you like, you should hire them regardless of size. But don't be afraid if you find someone perfect and they have a million followers, it might take a while to get to them, but don't be afraid to pitch them if you really can find the fit and if you're really solving a problem for them, because at the end of the day, they're just a customer.  

They're just a customer who with a few social posts could change the course of your business, but they're still a customer. So you are solving a problem for them just like you're solving a problem for a customer with no followers. And if you remind them that they can help you and why you chose them, you can really have access to anybody you want.

00:12:45

Andrea Marquez: I love that reminder. Influencers are also customers that can change the course of your business. I feel like it makes approaching influencer marketing a little less intimidating. That was Brittany Hennessy, the bestselling author of Influencer: Building Your Personal Brand in The Age of Social Media. We covered a lot in this episode.  

If you missed anything, don't worry. We've taken notes for you. You can find them at www. smallbusiness. amazon/ podcasts. Don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode, and I'd love to know what you think or if there's anything else you'd like me to talk about.  

So, send us an email at Thisismallbusiness@amazon.com or leave us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts with your thoughts. Maybe you'll get to hear your review on the show. That's it for this episode of This is Small Business, brought to you by Amazon.  

Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta Luego, and thanks for listening. This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by Jar Audio.

Want to make sure everyone knows about your product before it launches? Just ask Jay Clouse, the founder of Creator Science, who was able to generate six figure sales within the first few days of launching his product, Creatore HQ, all thanks to a carefully thought out pre-launch strategy. Jay shares his approach to building anticipation through consistent communication and engagement with his audience and why you should be planning your launch months before your product hits the market.

Learn how to leverage your audience, what incentives to offer, and how to build an engaged audience that wants to buy your upcoming product.

In this episode, you’ll hear:

(1:44) Why you should be talking about your product months before it launches.

(3:24) How you could see who might be interested in your upcoming product and reach them.

(4:58) Jay breaks platforms down into two categories: Discovery platforms and relationship platforms. Learn the difference between both types and how to use them to build an engaged audience that will buy your product when it launches!

(6:49) How consistently posting can build trust.

(8:29) Should you have a discount or a special incentive when you first launch?

(9:24) How to keep the momentum after you launch.

Key lessons:

1 - Build the Hype: Start talking about your product months before launch to build anticipation and keep your audience on their toes!

2 - Use different platforms: Mix discovery platforms with relationship platforms to get the best of both worlds—reach and trust. Jay emphasizes the importance of balancing discovery platforms and relationship platforms in your pre-launch strategy. Discovery platforms, like social media and podcasts, help attract new audiences by getting your content in front of fresh eyes. Relationship platforms, like email lists and newsletters, deepen connections with your existing audience, turning interest into loyalty. Together, they create a powerful combo that drives both initial excitement and long-term engagement, key to a successful launch.

3 - Stay Consistent: Promise your audience regular updates and deliver like clockwork. Consistency builds trust and keeps people coming back for more!

4 - Forget discounts—add value instead! There's a time and place for discounts, but Jay warns that discounts can devalue your product over time, making it seem less valuable. Instead, offer exclusive bonuses during your launch to make your product even more tempting. By adding value, like special features or additional content, you enhance the appeal without lowering the price. This strategy not only boosts sales but also maintains the integrity and perceived worth of your product.

5 - Focus on Your Own Numbers: Don’t get caught up in comparing yourself to others. Keep your eyes on your own metrics and keep pushing forward.

00:00:00

Jay Clouse: I took extra time to build this anticipation. I historically have not done this multi-months lead-up to a product launch. At most in the past, I've done a pre-sale, which is good because that de-risks the creation of a product. You can basically validate whether people want it because they'll actually pay you for it or they will not. So I used to do pre-sales and then say, “By the way, this is now fully available.” But this anticipation was different because it really front-loaded the awareness and consideration, and decision steps before they had the opportunity to purchase.

00:00:33

Andrea Marquez: I am your host, Andrea Marquez, and This is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Today we're diving into a critical aspect of launching any product, the pre-launch strategy.  

Building excitement and anticipation before your product hits the market can make all the difference in its success. Whether you're launching your first product or adding a new one to your existing product lineup, understanding these strategies can give you a significant edge and drive sales.  

To help us explore this topic, we'll be talking to Jay Clouse, the founder of Creator Science, a media company dedicated to supporting professional creators. Jay is a powerhouse in the creator economy with more than 60,000 newsletter subscribers, 2 million podcast downloads, and over 4 million views on YouTube. And to stay consistent and organized, he built his own operating system to run his business.

00:01:32

Jay Clouse: And as I showed that system to people in my membership, the lab, and just other creators that I came across, people's eyes just got so big and they're like, “Can I have this?”

00:01:43

Andrea Marquez: It took Jay three years to build that operating system that he calls CreatorHQ, and within the first four days of its launch, he generated around five figures in sales. But of course, to get there, it took Jay a lot of preparation.

00:01:58

Jay Clouse: I started productizing my system in January of this year. I didn't launch the product until April. So for that four month period, even though there was part of that time that I was actually building the product, I was communicating with my audience about the product, telling them what it was going to be included, asking their opinion about what they would like to see as part of it to make sure that I wasn't missing anything totally critical.  

And at least on a weekly basis, I was talking about the product before it was even available, and I think that is probably the most important part of the pre-launch process for CreatorHQ was just months talking about it before it was available. Because if you think about any purchasing decision, you have to be aware that it exists. You have to understand what it does, you have to consider whether you want to purchase it, and then you actually have to take action.

And a lot of creators will try to compress all of those steps for the consumer on one launch email or something. And really you can front load three of the four of those things. You can front load awareness, you can front load the education of what it does for them. You can front load the opportunity for them to consider whether they want to buy it or not, so that when you actually go to launch, you can say, “This is available now, would you like to purchase it?” And it's actually a very short consideration period because they've already convinced themselves, “When this is available, I would like to purchase it.”

00:03:19

Andrea Marquez: A big part of Jay's pre-launch strategy is his email list. We've talked about the power of email lists with Jenna Kutcher in our last season, so check that episode out if you want to dig into them. But instead of sending emails about his upcoming product to his entire list, Jay decided to target only those who were interested in it.

00:03:37

Jay Clouse: Every time I would talk about the product, I would say, “ By the way, if you want to be the first to know about this, click here to join the wait list.” And so that list, that was what I was watching most closely during that pre-launch period to see is that number growing? Because one, that's validation that people want this, and two, that's going to be actually the most likely segment of your list to purchase the product.  

So during the launch, I sent 10 total emails about the product, and seven of those I sent to the wait list segment, three I sent to the rest of the list.If you have people opt in to being sold to, rather than just constantly blanket selling to everybody on the list, people are going to have a better experience opening your emails. So of those segments, the majority of purchases came from that wait list while also being a minority of the total subscribers on the list.  

So it's a great way to maintain high quality relationships and email hygiene. It's basically say, “ I'm making a thing, I'm going to tell you about it. If I piqued your interest, click here and you'll be the first to know about it. Basically click here and I'll tell you when you can buy it. And if not, no harm, no foul. I won't bug you as much with it.”

00:04:51

Andrea Marquez: Jay already had a platform and an engaged audience when he was working on launching CreatorHQ. But if you're still in the early stages of building an engaged audience, you're probably scrambling around to figure out what medium and platforms to use. To simplify that decision, here's how Jay breaks down the different options.

00:05:10

Jay Clouse: I broadly put them into two camps. One camp is discovery platforms. These are platforms that have a built-in mechanism for new audience to discover your content through it. Usually it's an algorithm. These platforms are usually ad-supported and they're free to use. These have built-in discovery algorithms, a great way to get in front of new people. The risk is the rules of those platforms change all the time, and you are not guaranteed to actually reach the people who have said, “I want to hear from you.” The second bucket are relationship platforms.  

These are platforms where there is no third party intermediary between you and the end consumer. They're more decentralized, and your ability to communicate with those people is more consistent and reliable. This would be email, podcasting, SMS and private communities. So I recommend folks start with one discovery platform and one relationship platform.  

So for me, my goal is to get as many people over to email as possible, and everything I do on the discovery side is for the goal of getting people to be aware that my newsletter exists and to give it a shot. And then email is really where I do my best writing. It's where I share everything first and the most in depth, but it's a higher commitment to read it and engage with it. Whereas on social media, these are just little sound bites. It's like an audition.

00:06:34

Andrea Marquez: But whatever platforms you decide to use, make sure you stay consistent.

00:06:40

Jay Clouse: Just the act of saying, “You can expect to hear from me every Sunday at 9: 00 AM,” and then fulfilling that week after week, after week after week. People have, in some cases, several years worth of cycles of me fulfilling promises that I've made to them. It's huge for building trust to basically tell your people what they can expect from you and then deliver that even as simply as, “I'm going to publish something on this day at this time,” and doing that over and over and over again.  

So it's been this incremental effort of publishing more and more, and more for the same type of person. That consistency, not just in how often I'm publishing, but what I'm talking about, what I'm helping you do, who this is for, that has been consistent as well.Because we're humans and we contain multitudes, and we have various interests, we'll publish things on all these different interests, which makes it really difficult to attract an audience that you truly understand because now the audience is really fragmented, and now it's actually hard to serve that audience week after week because topic A and topic B, and topic C aren't even related, so which one do you talk about? Whatever one you talk about, you're going to alienate the people who are not interested in that at all. It's very challenging.  

So being consistent, not just in how frequently you're publishing, but what you're talking about and how you're helping people who you're helping is a big, big part of attracting an audience that knows who you are, likes what you have to say, and trusts you to follow through on whatever it is that you're promising.

00:08:10

Andrea Marquez: Jay also set up a special incentive to give people a little extra nudge when CreatorHQ launched.

00:08:17

Jay Clouse: I used the first four days of the launch to have some fast action bonus, basically saying, “If you purchase in the next four days, you'll get these bonuses on top of it,” so a little bit of an incentive there. A lot of people will use the inverse of that tactic and say, “For the first four days, we'll give you this discount,” and there's a time and place for discounts. People who opted into the wait list for the product, they had a 10% discount as a thank you for taking the action of saying, “I want to learn more about this.” But a lot of times are used as a crutch, and over time devalue the product that you have. So I instead like to have a positive addition on top of the base product during a window of time rather than saying, “This thing, but for a lower price.”

00:09:01

Andrea Marquez: And that work doesn't end when you launch, so how do you maintain that growth even after the incentive expires?

00:09:10

Jay Clouse: The sustained growth, we have to define what growth is in terms of what growth do we care about. And most creators would define the growth they care about as probably a following number or a number of views, or a number of impressions. So they're literally saying, “ I want to see growth in attention.” My point of view is you need to get a return on that attention, and you want to see growth in your return on that attention.  

There are some beautiful businesses that have a much smaller means of distribution that are revenue machines. They're so efficient at turning the attention they're getting into very viable, very safe, very scalable businesses, and then you have the inverse of huge scale in terms of number of people that you're reaching and driving almost no revenue. So revenue is a great metric for your return on attention. I think that's what I would optimize for growth for.

So if you are currently attracting a lot of attention on one of these platforms, and the goal is, “How do I sustain? How do I continue to grow?” And I'm flipping the switch and you're saying, “How do I grow revenue?” You need to start building your own means of distribution. You need to say, “Okay, let's figure out what email as a part of my strategy looks like,” or, “let's figure out what podcasting or even SMS. So how do these relationship platforms fit the model? How do I drive people from my discovery platforms to my relationship platform, and then sell from their relationship platform?”

Because it's easier to sell from a relationship platform. It's easier to make the leap from a hyperlink in an email or a hyperlink in a text to a purchase page. So that's the strategy that I would really have people think about. Think about your discovery platform as the very top of the funnel. It's where you're auditioning for a new audience. It's where you're reaching new people. That platform exists to help you build your own system of distribution in email, SMS, podcasting, or private communities. And then that is where you develop trust that you need to lead to a transaction.

00:11:07

Andrea Marquez: And whether you're measuring the attention on your product or your revenue, if that number isn't as high as you'd like it to be, keep going. You'll get there.

00:11:16

Jay Clouse: Our tendency as human beings is to look at other people's numbers to benchmark how we are doing relative to our peers or other people. We want to see that our progress is good or our thing is working. Just look at the most important numbers to you and consistently try to move that in a positive direction. Because if you do that and you ignore everybody else's numbers, you're going to get the results you're looking for just by focusing on your own baseline and moving that in a positive direction.

00:11:45

Andrea Marquez: That was Jay Clouse, the founder of Creator Science. We covered a lot in this episode. If you missed anything, don't worry. We've taken notes for you. You can find them at www. smallbusiness. amazon/ podcast.  

Don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode, and I'd love to know what you think, so send us an email at thisismallbusiness@ amazon. com or leave us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts with your thoughts, maybe you'll get to hear your review on the show. Here's one from the one and only Amy Porterfield, who we had on the show last season. This podcast is your one-stop shop to what's working now, entrepreneurial strategies and valuable mindset shifts that will help you experience the kind of success you're looking for in your business. Don't sleep on this podcast. It's exactly what you need to get to the next level.

Thank you, Amy. I can't wait to speak to you again. And if you haven't already, make sure to go check out Amy's podcast, the Online Marketing Made Easy Podcast. That's it for this episode of This is Small Business brought to you by Amazon. Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta luego, and thanks for listening. This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.

Wondering if your small business is ready to scale and how to smoothly transition into e-commerce? Just ask Val Fishbain, co-founder of Spread the Love Foods, who successfully took her business from the local farmer’s market to the online world, all while staying true to her community roots. Val shares her experience selling at farmer’s markets, what it took to make the leap to e-commerce, and the importance of giving back as her business grew. You’ll also hear from Viridiana Ponce, a business consultant and food industry expert, who dives into how to leverage farmer’s markets to enhance your business and the crucial steps for expanding beyond your local market while staying connected to your community.

Learn the essential steps for scaling up like maintaining product quality, engaging with your community, and conducting market research to confidently take your business online.

In this episode, you’ll hear:

(2:28) How Val’s thoughtful wedding favor quickly turned into a full-blown business.

(4:22) Thinking of starting a food business from home? Learn the preparation and licenses to make sure you do it right!

(5:41) Val’s first experience selling her products at a farmer’s market.

(9:34) The benefits that come with starting at a farmer’s market.

(10:44) How tracking sales at a farmer’s market can help you get funding.

(11:40) When should you consider expanding? Viridiana lists what you should be looking for to make sure you’re ready for that next step.

(15:02) Three essential strategies for a successful transition to e-commerce.

(18:58) How giving back through your business can help your business grow and succeed.

Key Lessons:

1 - Follow your local food regulations. Before you start whipping up delicious treats in your home kitchen, make sure you acquire the proper licenses and equipment to do it. The regulations vary by state and dictate what types of food you can sell, where you can sell them, and how they must be labeled.

2 - Use farmer's markets for feedback. The feedback Val received led to crucial changes like simplifying their peanut butter recipe and upsizing the jar size. So, if you’re at a market, don’t just sell—observe, listen, and adapt based on what customers love (or don’t love) about your product.

3 - Track every sale. If you’re dreaming of scaling up, data is your best friend. Viridiana stresses the importance of using a POS system to track your sales. This data is your ticket to securing loans or attracting investors when you're ready to expand. Plus, it can help you uncover trends, understand customer behavior, and make informed decisions. So, start tracking those sales from day one!

4 - Make sure you get professional help when you need it. Val hired a consultant to help their e-commerce transition go smoothly. Remember, it’s okay to ask for help—it could save you time and money in the long run.

5 - Document everything. As you scale, consistency is key, and that means documenting your recipes and processes. Viridiana points out that having everything written down not only helps maintain quality but also makes scaling much easier.

6. Plan for costs. Transitioning your business online can be a game-changer, but it can get expensive. Take the time to thoroughly plan and budget, so you don’t find yourself scrambling for funds later. Viridiana says that a well-planned financial strategy will help you avoid making decisions out of urgency and ensure a smoother, more successful transition into e-commerce.

7. Remember to stay connected with the community that helped you grow. Whether you're participating in local events, supporting nonprofits, or simply being a present and caring business owner, these connections are key to building a loyal customer base. And giving back doesn't have to be costly—start small, and let your impact grow alongside your business.

00:00:01

Andrea Marquez: Most businesses start small, and sometimes there's a point in your small business journey where you want to start growing. You might want to reach a larger audience, increase your revenue, or maybe even outsource manufacturing, packaging, and shipping because the demand for your products is more than you can handle. But that transition comes with its own set of challenges.

How do you know if you're ready for this next step? How can you maintain the quality of your products as you scale, especially if you're a consumer packaged goods business? And how can you continue to serve the community that brought you to a point where you can expand? I know it sounds like a lot, but don't worry. We'll be answering all these questions with the help of Viridiana Ponce, a business consultant and food expert dedicated to helping small businesses launch and grow.

00:00:49

Viridiana Ponce: As we're getting ready to think about that expansion, the focus should always be on our customer experience. And how can we always maintain and provide a consistent and easy and positive customer experience? That should always either stay the same or improve. And I think that if we always put ourselves in the shoes of our clients or of our potential clients, that'll be really helpful as we're thinking through creating this experience, and as we're thinking about expanding. Because as we're growing, we want to make sure that we're not losing that quality of our product or of our service.

00:01:32

Andrea Marquez: Viridiana, like me, is a Latina who grew up in a small business household. That inspired her to start her own business, VP Consulting, where she helps food entrepreneurs launch, grow, and secure funding. She's been doing this for over 10 years now and has worked with many food businesses. She'll be sharing everything you might want to know, as you think about expanding your business.

Hi, I'm Andrea Marquez, and This is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Today, we'll be diving into how to grow your business from selling at a farmer's market to online, a scary but exciting process. And we'll also talk about how you can continue to give back to the community that gave you the opportunity to expand. A business that managed to undertake this challenging task is none other than Spread The Love Foods.

00:02:30

Val Fishbain: Spread The Love Foods is a challenger brand. We make nut butters, jams, and basically spreadables. We focus on our DTC customers online through Amazon and through our website. And we focus on fulfilling businesses' needs as well.

00:02:51

Andrea Marquez: That's Val Fishbain, the Co-Founder and President of Spread The Love Foods. She co-founded her business around 11 years ago with her husband Zach, when they were planning their wedding.

00:03:02

Val Fishbain: We were looking for something special to give to our friends and family who were coming to our wedding. We were trying to do something from the heart. And then one day we were eating breakfast, and I was making the peanut butter off of my Vitamix blender, and just thought, "We can make nut butters, peanut especially, and give this to our guests, and call it Spread The Love. Wouldn't that be cool?"So, most of our friends and family enjoyed it and told us, "You guys, you can make a business out of this. This is pretty special."

00:03:40

Andrea Marquez: Okay, so you received positive feedback during your wedding. And then did you decide to just ditch the honeymoon and open an LLC?

00:03:50

Val Fishbain: Okay, we had a mini moon, is what we called it. And then we came home and we're like, "All right, Spread The Love, peanut butter. Let's do it. How do we start?"Literally the Monday after our wedding, we started looking at, how can we get a cottage food license? How can we make this in our kitchen and have it be health department approved?

00:04:16

Andrea Marquez: Starting a food business from your kitchen comes with a lot of responsibilities. And before you even consider selling your products at a farmer's market, first you need to get the proper licenses and approvals.

00:04:27

Viridiana Ponce: There's still really stringent health and safety standards that operators need to make sure that they follow. And if people want to get into farmer's markets or festivals or different types of events, they need to make sure that they're following and complying with their local health department. And in order for you to also have that confidence in being able to sell your product, then I would say you definitely want to make sure that you're getting your health permits.

00:04:54

Andrea Marquez: And Viridiana also says that you might need to spend a little more money if you do decide to start at home.

00:04:59

Viridiana Ponce: Sometimes we don't have all of the equipment at home or the commercial equipment that we may need in order to produce a specific product. And so, it's going to take an investment. And then I would also say that sometimes people can blur their personal and professional space or the time that they're working. And so, that can make it also a little bit more challenging.

00:05:21

Andrea Marquez: Once you move past these challenges, you're finally ready to put your product out there for people to buy. And Val did that by going to farmer's markets.

00:05:30

Val Fishbain: It literally took us a week. And I had a full-time job as a social worker, and Zach also had a full-time job, so there was just a lot of stuff going on. Tired is something that I remember feeling. We had to roast the peanuts two days before we ground it, because otherwise it will stick into the grinder. And then packaging the peanut butters into jars. And I believe back then in the beginning, we even tied little strings around the jars. And it took a lot of convincing from Zach to convince me to stop doing that 'cause it was just taking so much time and effort.

That and then the setting up, carrying the loads and loads of boxes of peanut butter from the house to the car, and then from the car to the farmer's market booth. And then from there, you're standing on your feet six hours, six hours of talking to people, one-on-one. And not just one person needing your attention, maybe three people at once.

We started selling our jars. We put on a big smile, big energy, started talking to people, and people received it so well. It was fun, it was exciting, it was exhilarating. Zach and I are newlyweds and we were doing something together again, coming from planning our wedding to now planning a business together. So, it was pretty much a marathon. It was a lot of hard work and very rewarding, because we did get a lot of feedback from people.

00:07:12

Andrea Marquez: And the feedback they got helped them refine their product.

00:07:16

Val Fishbain: I didn't tell you that the nut butters that we made in the beginning, had agave and cinnamon and cayenne pepper on it. We were trying to be gourmet, so that was the wedding peanut butter. But then at the farmer's market, people were giving us feedback that, “Oh, I don't like cinnamon.”, or, “I don't really like spicy cayenne.” “Agave is bad for me.”

So, that's when we got the idea of like, “Well, why don't we make a peanut butter literally made out of peanuts and this is going to be our main peanut butter?” And that peanut butter sold out within a few hours. Another thing that changed is the size of the jar. We had eight ounce jars before and the eight ounce jars weren't enough for some people. So, we ended up doing it in 16 ounce jars.

00:08:19

Andrea Marquez: So farmers' markets are a great place for market research. This is something that Viridiana points out as well.

00:08:25

Viridiana Ponce: We want to learn as much as we can about our clients and what's important for them. But we also want to pay attention to who's not purchasing our products, and why are they not purchasing? What are their objections? Are people saying that it's too expensive? Are people giving you feedback after they taste the product? So I think that is so important, so valuable that we also pay attention to the people that are not purchasing.

00:08:53

Andrea Marquez: That's exactly what Val did. And there's another long-term benefit to selling your products at a farmer's market.

00:09:00

Viridiana Ponce: It gives you that one-on-one connection and that time, and for you to be able to practice your elevator pitch and to really learn about who your clients are and what's resonating with them.  

And so, I'm thinking about a client who started a salsa business. And they began by offering samples and sharing the history behind their family's recipes, talking about their culture. And people really gravitated to that authenticity and really connected with their story. And obviously were able to taste their product and it's an amazing product.  

But I feel like it really helped connect and build that trust with their community because they knew more about them than, “Okay, this is just a salsa business.” If you're going to be at a farmer's market, put yourself out there. This is an opportunity for us to get to know more people, and for people to be able to get to know our product.

00:09:54

Andrea Marquez: Getting the word out about your business is really important. But while you're doing that, make sure that you're also tracking your sales because that might help you when you decide to expand.

00:10:04

Viridiana Ponce: What I've seen is that when my clients have a POS system and they're registering their sales, tracking their sales, then we can use that information later on to get a loan. Because now they have sales, they have it recorded, they're able to obtain funding slightly easier because once again, we have data that we can share with either micro lenders or with investors. And if you're using a POS system, then we can gather data on the average check size. We can see trends, purchasing patterns, and just overall sales. So, it's a really great opportunity to gather and analyze data.

00:10:42

Andrea Marquez: That's a great tip. When you decide to expand and need a little extra cash to fund your business, having that data will probably make things a lot easier. And you'll know when you're ready to take that next step by asking yourself a few questions about your customers.

00:10:58

Viridiana Ponce: How are people receiving the product? If they're enjoying the product, what's the feedback that you are getting, once we start seeing that we have those repeat clients? And seeing, why are they coming back? How often are they coming back? And so, I think that making sure that we're listening to our clients is really important.

I think that also as we're getting ready to think about that expansion, the focus should always be on our customer experience. And how can we always maintain and provide a consistent and easy and positive customer experience? That should always either stay the same or improve.  

And I think that if we always put ourselves in the shoes of our clients or of our potential clients, that'll be really helpful as we're thinking through creating this experience, and as we're thinking about expanding. Because as we're growing, we want to make sure that we're not losing that quality of our product or of our service. And so, I would say really focus on your client needs and on creating that experience for them.

00:12:08

Andrea Marquez: And that next step might come a lot sooner than expected. For Spread The Love, Val started thinking about going online around two to three months after they started selling their products.

00:12:20

Val Fishbain: I believe I was already pregnant at the time, so I was telling Zach, “I'm tired. I don't know how else to do this, but maybe we could sell online.” So we started the process there, and it took a few months, six months for us to get in. Definitely, the beginning was tough. I had never sold online before, so for me it was, “Okay, what am I doing?” But I just kept going and this is something that I truly wanted to have for my business. I would rather sell online than sell at the farmer's market, because of the ease of just being at home, not on my feet when I was pregnant. And the idea of making money while its just kind of in the internet world, was a good motivation for me. Don't be afraid to put some money into it, especially in the beginning.

00:13:27

Andrea Marquez: If you're planning on taking that next step, money is something that you're definitely going to have to focus on. Viridiana says that underestimating the cost of transitioning online and not spending enough time working or revising profits and prices is a mistake that a lot of entrepreneurs make.

00:13:42

Viridiana Ponce: What happens is that a lot of times people end up needing more working capital. And then they need to go back and get a loan and then they're making decisions based out of urgency. And so if we spend a little bit more time, hopefully we can avoid some of that. And we can do a lot more of the work in the front end instead of while we're in the middle of that transition. Because all of my clients who have gone through a transition, they have all required that additional funding.

00:14:12

Andrea Marquez: So, make sure you spend enough time planning your numbers. Another mistake Viridiana noticed is a common one that every entrepreneur goes through. You probably guessed it, doing everything yourself.

00:14:23

Viridiana Ponce: And that's so overwhelming. Not only overwhelming, but I've seen that sometimes this means that it actually causes more expenses. Because there's either mistakes or we don't have the knowledge of let's say, design work. And then the packages end up getting printed out, and there is a mistake where it didn't comply with regulations.  

And so I would say that before we go through this transition, really identifying what experts and who we need to work with. Because if we were working with the designers or we're working with specific experts, that could end up saving you money and time. So, really consider what kind of support you need and then who's in your network that can help you out with that. And then budgeting for it, if it's someone that you do need to hire.

We don't have to do it alone. I think that's one of our superpowers as entrepreneurs, is that we learn and we do so much. But you don't have to, right? There's resources, whether you're paying for them or there's actually a lot of business support out there. And it's either low cost or free support that entrepreneurs can also take advantage of. So, definitely don't do it alone.

00:15:36

Andrea Marquez: And that's something that Val did as well. She hired someone to make that transition go a lot smoother.

00:15:42

Val Fishbain: It was tough to get the documentations right and the calling of the customer service and the back and forth. It was tough for me to do that while I had my full-time job, so we hired a consultant.

00:15:57

Andrea Marquez: And another tip that'll help make the move to e-commerce easier is don't forget to document everything.

00:16:03

Viridiana Ponce: Oftentimes, I see that people don't write out their recipes. And so, scaling that recipe is harder because we don't have things written down. Or else it also makes it challenging for quality control, if we don't have things documented. Or even the process of how to make your specific food products. So I would say if you are considering expanding your business, think about documenting the recipes and the processes for you to make your product. Because it's going to help you out. It's going to have an impact on your financials because you'll know how much exactly you're using of each ingredient.

00:16:40

Andrea Marquez: And speaking of recipes, a really important ingredient to your business's growth and success is your community.

00:16:46

Viridiana Ponce: So from the side of a business owner, I think really being connected with their community, that it helps people I think, have a sense of belonging. Whether it's like you're giving back or donating food, or participating in different events with different nonprofits that maybe they've been a part of. And I feel like that also really showcases who they are as a person. And it makes the community and it makes other people really lean in to them because they're giving back.  

So, I feel like it's this beautiful give and take relationship. And then I think from the point of view of a community, so important, the way that we spend our money. And I think that as consumers or as clients, that we can think about shopping local or going to our local farmer's market. And it could be also investing in these businesses as they're expanding.  

So, I always think about the way that we spend our money, it matters. And so when we are spending it on a small business, that's also such a lovely thing that we're also supporting economic development. And so I think that on both sides, as a consumer and as a small business owner, that community, it's everything for me. It's so important that we are giving and taking and forming this beautiful relationships as community members.

00:18:14

Andrea Marquez: And giving back through Spread The Love was something that Val has always wanted to do.

00:18:19

Val Fishbain: I have a background in social work, and to me, leaving that so that I could be full-time with Spread The Love after I believe, two or three years of starting Spread The Love, it was tough because I was leaving a lot of what I truly cared about. And going to Spread The Love, I said, “Okay, well this is a business, I am still serving people. And in the future, I can eventually serve more people in a bigger way.” You can tell from our name, it is Spread The Love. So there's so many meanings to that phrase. It's changed throughout the years, for me.  

In the beginning it was literally making something from my kitchen and giving it to my loved one, or giving it to a stranger. And when I see them eat the food that I made in my kitchen, my heart explodes. That was it. That was Spread The Love to me then, but now it's bigger than that. I feel like today, I definitely think about my kids, how I spread the love to them, and how they see spread the love spreading the love to others.  

So whether they want to start their own business or be a part of Spread The Love, I want them to keep in mind and keep it in their hearts that they have to spread the love forward too.

00:19:46

Andrea Marquez: So, Val took the same approach she did with her wedding favors. She decided to do something from the heart.

00:19:52

Val Fishbain: Back in 2018, we started volunteering for an organization here in Los Angeles. Pizza, they needed pizza servers to people that were experiencing homelessness and were transitioning. So, we served pizza. And then from there, we started a fundraiser to donate to PATH, People Assisting the Homeless. After that, the initiatives kept getting bigger and bigger, and we wanted to serve more people. And so, we partnered with another organization that was serving homelessness here, St. Joseph Center, to serve transitioning and homeless people. From there, it was super fulfilling to me, and I felt like I was a social worker again while being a business woman.

00:20:40

Andrea Marquez: And then Zach, her co-founder and husband, decided that he wanted to serve his own community through Spread The Love.

00:20:46

Val Fishbain: Zach grew up in Wisconsin and he went to the public schools. The public school system taught him to be this intelligent business man that he felt like he needed to give back to that community. So in 2020 during the pandemic, there was a lot of unrest. And we thought of, “Hey, why don't we give scholarships to students of Racine, Wisconsin?”, where he's from.

Our business was doing well at that time, but we didn't have that much money to give away. So we started with three scholars. And we gave them a thousand dollars each so that they can graduate high school and transition to their college. And that was the beginning of Spread The Love Forward Scholarship. It started small, but it had a huge impact in the beginning. And from there, every year, we increased it to five scholars. And now in 2024, we've awarded 23 scholars.

00:22:03

Andrea Marquez: Giving back doesn't have to break the bank. So if you're thinking of following Val's footsteps, start small.

00:22:09

Val Fishbain: Based on your business model or however much profit you're getting, I think definitely base it on that. We started small, and also, it's not all year long. We are supporting other organizations all year long. We're giving in-kind donations throughout the year, but the Spread The Love Forward, every June or July, that's when we do it. So, it's not overwhelming.There's literally nothing too small to give. Start volunteering. It could just be your time in the beginning. And from there, the idea will flourish. And it'll just keep pushing you to start that program for your business.

00:22:57

Andrea Marquez: And apart from it being a rewarding experience, giving back can be really beneficial for your business.

00:23:04

Val Fishbain: The more savvy consumers of today who are looking for businesses that provide clean products and do good for our society, these are our customers. And they respond so well when we send them the newsletter that, “Oh, this is our fifth year of providing scholarships to high school students. Here it is.” And as soon as they see that they respond to us. Whether it's on social or email, we hear from our customers about this. There's a lot of great feedback that come from this.

00:23:43

Andrea Marquez: We've served up a lot of information about transitioning from a farmer's market to e-commerce. I know it might feel like a lot to digest, so I'll leave you with what I thought was the most important piece of advice. Always go in with a plan.

00:23:58

Viridiana Ponce: I think that when people are starting businesses that they are really passionate about and they believe in, and they're combining that with planning and looking at their numbers and creating a plan, I've seen that they can be really successful. And we don't have to know every single one of the steps, and we don't have to do that all by ourselves.  

We want to ask for help. We can be successful. So whether you decide to start from your house or a farmer's market or start selling online, spend some time connecting the story back to you. Making sure that you're spending time on your numbers and then asking for help. And you can generate a lot of money by doing something that you love, if you're also paying attention to your numbers.

00:24:44

Andrea Marquez: Val and Viridiana dished out a ton of advice on how to take that next step in your business while staying connected to the community that got you there. If you missed anything, don't worry. We've taken notes for you. You can find them at www. smallbusiness. amazon/ podcasts. Don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode.

And I'd love to know what you think, so send us an email at thisismallbusiness@ amazon. com. Or leave us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts with your thoughts. Maybe you'll get to hear your review on the show, like this one from TF97. “Love how insightful each of the episodes are. Overall, great takeaways that every small business owner can apply. Highly recommend.” Thank you.

That's it for this episode of This Small Business brought to you by Amazon. Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez, Hasta luego, and thanks for listening. This is Small Business brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.

Ever wondered how podcasting can help you grow your business? Just ask Hala Taha, the host of the Young and Profiting (YAP) podcast and the founder of YAP Media Network and YAP Media, who knows all the podcasting secrets that’ll help you get big. Hala aka the Podcast Princess shares her own entrepreneurial journey and reveals the secrets behind her rapid growth, including how she harnessed LinkedIn for visibility and used creative strategies to break through the podcasting noise. Learn how to start your podcast, different monetization options, and why you should be advertising your business on podcasts.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

(1:38) How Hala went from a corporate marketing role to founding a leading podcast network in just two years.

(3:20) Hala’s game-changing LinkedIn tactics that increased her podcast’s visibility and engagement.

(5:04) How Hala used her LinkedIn presence to grow on other platforms.

(6:40) How Hala leveraged her podcast as a lead generation tool and built a successful social media agency from it.

(8:48) Why podcasting can help you grow your business.

(10:20) The three key components for a successful podcast: being searchable, designing an eye-catching cover, and utilizing platforms like TikTok and YouTube.

(11:28) How to advertise your business on other podcasts.

Key lessons:

1 - Get Creative with Marketing: You don’t always need a big budget to grow your podcast. Hala started on Linkedin by DMing the audience on other similar profiles to grow. Then, she traded her LinkedIn audience for features and banners from podcast platforms.

2 - Using Podcasts as an Advertising Tool: If starting your own podcast feels like a lot, think about advertising on existing podcasts. It can be more cost-effective and can lead to high conversions. Find shows that vibe with your target audience and see if you can guest appear to boost your brand’s visibility.

3 - Networking Strategically Through Your Podcast: Use your podcast as a networking goldmine. Invite potential clients or influential figures in your industry as guests. Building these relationships might lead to future opportunities you hadn’t even imagined.

4 - Monetizing Creatively: There are so many ways to monetize a podcast beyond just sponsorships. Hala used her podcast as a lead generation tool and turned her guests into clients for her social media agency.

5 - Be Searchable: Hala offered a few tips to make sure you get the best out of your podcast. Use relevant keywords in your titles and descriptions so people can discover your content when they’re searching for topics you cover. And make sure that you work on your cover art.

6 - Building a Strong Foundation for Your Podcast: It’s going to take a while for your podcast to grow. So focus on being an amazing interviewer, preparing thoroughly, and consistently putting out high-quality content. Engage with your audience and provide value in every episode to build a loyal listener base that keeps coming back.

00:00:01

Hala Taha: So I come at it with a very podcast centric approach, audience focused approach, and I monetize all the different channels. And so basically it's the same thing. I figured it out for myself and then started to offer it to other people and that's how the YAP Media Podcast Network was born just two years ago and we're already the number one business and self-improvement podcast network.

00:00:25

Andrea Marquez: I'm your host, Andrea Marquez, and this is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. A lot of you have been asking if podcasting can help you grow your business, whether that's through creating your own podcast or by advertising on other shows and if you can earn a little extra revenue on the side by starting a podcast.  

The short answer is yes, and I'll be talking to you about what you should do to get started. And if you're not sure if you need to incorporate podcasting into your business, maybe you'll change your mind by the end of this episode.  

Today, I have a very special guest who is no stranger to the world of podcasting and entrepreneurship, Hala Taha, the host of the Young and Profiting Podcast, and the founder and CEO of YAP Media Podcast Network and YAP Media, an award-winning podcast production and social media agency.

00:01:16

Hala Taha: Anything I figured out for myself, I figured out how can I just turn this into something and do it for other people? And I think that's why they call me the podcast princess, because I feel like I figured out every nook and cranny of the industry where other podcasters only focus on creating content.

00:01:32

Andrea Marquez: Hala will be sharing all her secrets on how she managed to start a successful podcast, how to advertise on other podcasts, and how to monetize a podcast beyond just getting sponsorships. Before Hala was dubbed the podcast princess, she was working in marketing at Hewlett Packard. She always had big dreams about working on radio or TV.

00:01:54

Hala Taha: When I first was in college, I interned at a radio station for several years, and then I had a blog site for several years and I almost got a show on MTV and I almost became a host on SiriusXM, but none of those opportunities panned out and I felt like a failure that I didn't make it in radio. I didn't make it in satellite radio or TV, and I thought, okay, I just got to go back, be a normal person, forget my dreams of being an on air personality and let go of my dreams. And I went into corporate.

00:02:25

Andrea Marquez: And she was doing very well.

00:02:26

Hala Taha: I got promoted four times in four years. I was the face of the young employees at Hewlett Packard, but something was missing. I was missing my true calling, which is using my voice for good.

00:02:37

Andrea Marquez: At the time, Hala was volunteering for the Young Employee Network at Hewlett Packard. She started the chapter at her local site in New Jersey and was the president for two years. Then she was on the global board and decided to apply to be present there, but she didn't get the opportunity.

00:02:53

Hala Taha: And then I found myself thinking, am I going to just keep working for free in this volunteer organization in my corporate job, or is this an opportunity for me to do something on my own, to go back to what I love doing? So Hala decided to start her podcast, Young and Profiting, and I actually did it as a side hustle, and I literally thought that it was just going to be a hobby for the rest of my life, a way to release this passion that I had while still sustaining myself because I thought that there was no way I would make money on my podcast.

00:03:26

Andrea Marquez: Fast forward to now, and Hala is making five figures a month. We'll get to the monetization in a bit, but before you even think about making money off your podcast, you first need to cultivate an audience and to do that, Hala did something a little out of the ordinary. She turned to LinkedIn.

00:03:44

Hala Taha: I remember when I first posted on LinkedIn, people were like, why are you posting your podcast on LinkedIn? Nobody does that. You can't post your podcast on LinkedIn. And then it leveraged that to become one of the top podcasters because I didn't listen to everybody what they thought was appropriate for LinkedIn, and I was doing really creative things to stand out and stop the scroll. I was using really bright colors, neon pink, neon green, neon yellow. Nobody was doing that. It wasn't my favorite colors. I wanted to stand out. I was making comic book audiograms. Video podcasting wasn't a thing yet in 2018, and I was doing that to stand out.

00:04:19

Andrea Marquez: Hala also had another hack that she used to bring in people to her account. She'd look for profiles that were similar to her and she DMed their audience.

00:04:27

Hala Taha: And at the time, I didn't know this, but DMing is the highest viral action on LinkedIn, and so people are 85% more likely to see your content in their feed if they DM you back. And so all these people were DMing me back suddenly. They were seeing all my content all the time, and I just became a huge influencer on LinkedIn, and suddenly I was getting more opportunities in corporate.  

When my coworkers, when I first started posting on LinkedIn, were like, what are you doing? Why are you doing that? What are you trying to do? Don't you think people are going to think that's weird? And it turned out to be to my benefit. So I always tell people, don't worry about what other people are going to think about you because first they're going to ask you why you're doing it, and then they're going to ask you how you did it.

00:05:07

Andrea Marquez: Things were going great for Hala. Her podcast continued to grow, but a year and a half later, things started to get stagnant.

00:05:15

Hala Taha: I was stuck at a certain amount of downloads and I was like, I don't know how to break through this. The other thing that was happening is that I felt like I wasn't a big enough podcaster on Apple and I was so focused on Apple Podcasts, but what I didn't realize is that everybody who was so big on Apple Podcasts started 4, 5, 6 years before I did, and they basically capitalized on starting early and now were the top podcasters and getting featured in ranking and the discoverability features by being the top podcasters. There was almost no way for me to sort of break into that.

00:05:51

Andrea Marquez: But then Hala realized that Apple Podcasts wasn't the only strategy she could leverage.

00:05:56

Hala Taha: And so I decided to reach out to every single podcast player, every single podcast company, and I traded my audience where I said, “Hey, I'll post you on LinkedIn in exchange for you featuring me on your website, in exchange for you writing an email blast about my podcast. I'll write a post about you on LinkedIn every month in exchange for you giving me a banner.” And I didn't spend any money. I was just being scrappy.

The same way that I figured out how to reach out to guests and book guests, I would figure out contact information for all these sites and podcasts related things and try to trade my audience. So that's what helped me break out and actually become a top podcaster. That's when I decided to quit my full-time job when I realized that my podcast is really taking off.  

At that time, I started my social agency, essentially the guests that would come on my show at the end of my show, they'd always ask me, how did you grow your LinkedIn? How did you grow your podcast? I started to take on social clients and take the same things that I did from my podcast and started doing it for other people. That grew superfast. And my podcast first started monetizing by being a lead generation tool where the guests that would come on my podcast ended up becoming my social and production clients.

00:07:13

Andrea Marquez: If you don't know what a lead generation tool is, it's a strategy or form of content that you could use to get clients or customers.

00:07:21

Hala Taha: So there's top funnel lead gens and there's mid-funnel lead gens. So top funnel lead gens are typically like free downloads, so like an e-book or a white paper, a quiz, something that people download and they put their name in their email, and now you have a way to reach out to them via email. Mid-funnel lead gen activities include things that have two-way communication, so maybe a live stream where you can answer questions or a webinar where you can have two-way communications or a discovery call where you are just like having a one-on-one call with someone. And basically it just helps you get more clients, close deals, get them warmer and more comfortable with your services.

00:08:02

Andrea Marquez: That was the first way Hala was able to monetize her podcast. She also figured out how to get sponsorships for her podcast and decided to help other podcasters do the same.

00:08:12

Hala Taha: So then I created a podcast network, and now I get sponsorships for podcasters like Jenna Kutcher of Gold Digger, Amy Porterfield, Online Marketing Made Easy, John Lee Dumas of Entrepreneurs on Fire. They're all in my network and I am responsible to get them sponsorships and I get 30% of all their sponsorships in my podcast network.

00:08:31

Andrea Marquez: Hala found creative solutions that helped her grow and then used all her knowledge to help other people do the same. I'll be giving you actionable takes on how you can replicate Hala's success, whether you're looking to start your own podcast or just want to advertise on a few shows. But before we get into that, let's dig into why podcasting is such a powerful tool that you need to incorporate into your business.

00:08:54

Hala Taha: The average listener is 18 to 54 years old. They're in their prime earning years where if you compare that to radio and TV, these people are 55 plus and podcast listeners are basically getting younger while radio and TV viewers are getting older. So now Gen Z is soaring in popularity with podcasts, so your target audience is most likely listening to podcasts. The other thing is that people really trust their hosts, right? So they get a really great connection because the host is basically in their ear. They feel like they know their voice, they know who they are. There's so much credibility, there's so much engagement. Podcasts drive a lot of purchase action, higher purchase action than radio and TV, for example.

00:09:37

Andrea Marquez: And creating your own podcast can be a great networking tool.

00:09:41

Hala Taha: So if you design a podcast where your target leads are actually the guests that you interview, what you're doing is you're able to talk to somebody who you'd otherwise not have an opportunity to speak with usually. You build trust, you build credibility, you're able to sort of soft sell. And for me, what happens is I don't even talk about my network or my social agency. What happens is that maybe a month later they email me, “Hey Hala, remember I came on your show? Can we talk about LinkedIn services?” So I'm able to get leads just by meeting people.

00:10:12

Andrea Marquez: And if you're interviewing people who are more experienced than you, you're also learning along the way. So we've talked about the power of podcasting to grow your business. Here's what you should know to make sure you get the most of it. One, make sure you're searchable.

00:10:27

Hala Taha: So the main way that people are finding podcasts in the audio apps at least, is that they're typing in stuff in search. They're typing in what they want to learn about. If they want to learn about podcast monetization, they're typing that in, and then whatever pops up, pops up. A lot of times people are just so worried about being catchy and it's not about being catchy. Be searchable. So make sure you're infusing your title, your description, your episode titles, all with keywords.

00:10:56

Andrea Marquez: Two, make sure you have a good podcast cover.

00:10:59

Hala Taha: Your podcast cover matters. So putting your face on your podcast cover, making it super clear, professional looking matters a lot.

00:11:07

Andrea Marquez: Three, leverage other platforms.

00:11:10

Hala Taha: The fastest growing podcasters right now are coming from TikTok or YouTube. These are video platforms that have an endless amount of content being fed to users. So much discoverability happening on those platforms and influx of new people all the time.

00:11:26

Andrea Marquez: But if starting a podcast is a little too much right now, you can utilize the power of podcasting by advertising on them.

00:11:33

Hala Taha: And they're not that expensive. And so that's why you see a lot of brands who really just focus on podcasting because it's just really high conversions, especially when you find a host who has the audience that you exactly need and want. You can also guest on those podcasts. You can advertise on those podcasts and say like, “Hey, I'll buy a quarter of ads and as value add, I want to be a guest on your show for free or pay to go on the show.”

00:11:58

Andrea Marquez: But keep in mind that podcasting is hard, and just like building a business, it'll take time before you see results.

00:12:05

Hala Taha: I made content and didn't sell anything for two years, and all I did is just be of service and try to put out great content and make sure I was a great interviewer and a great researcher and really prepared and tried hard for my podcast even when I wasn't making a dollar on it.  

It's going to take a couple of years before you're big enough to monetize and get sponsors if you want the sponsorship route. So you have to be passionate about what you're talking about, want to learn, want to meet other people and network with them or have some other way of generating income from those relationships with the people that come on your podcast.

00:12:41

Andrea Marquez: If you've decided to embark on the podcasting journey, welcome. We're happy to have you here. Here are some final words of advice from Hala.

00:12:49

Hala Taha: If you feel passionate about starting a podcast, do it. Be consistent. Do it. Do it because you love it. You'll be magnetic because people will feel that enthusiasm, and if you have the passion for it, you're going to figure out how to grow it, how to monetize it. It's not too saturated, it's not too late, and you should definitely do it.

00:13:07

Andrea Marquez: That was Hala Taha, the host of the Young and Profiting podcast, and the founder and CEO of YAP Media Podcast Network and YAP Media. We covered a lot in this episode. If you missed anything, don't worry. We've taken notes for you. You can find them at www. smallbusiness. amazon. com/ podcast. Don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode, and I'd love to know what you think. So send us an email at thisissmallbusiness. amazon. com or leave us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts with your thoughts.

Maybe you'll get to hear your review on the show. Here's one that caught my eye recently from Dave DeRave. “I only learned from hearing people's real stories and struggles with running a small business. So this podcast was a great find. Lots of different backgrounds and product lines. It's interesting to hear how everyone's Amazon journey varies and how some problems seem universal. Great for us aspiring entrepreneurs to business owners and everyone in between.”

Thanks a lot, Dave DeRave, and I'm the same way. I think it's so important to go beyond the textbook and learn from people who've been through it. Plus it helps knowing you're not alone. That's it for this episode of This Is Small Business, brought to you by Amazon.  

Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta Luego, and thanks for listening. This Is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.

Starting a business on a tight budget might sound tough, but it can be more beneficial than you might think. Just ask Alice Kim, founder of Elizabeth Mott, who turned a small budget into a flourishing business. Alice explains how she reduced costs by building a strong network, coming up with creative solutions, and the importance of buying enough time to build the momentum you need to get your business noticed. You’ll also hear from Caroline Castrillon, founder of the Corporate Escape Artist, who’ll share budget-friendly ways to understand your target audience and do market research.Learn how you can make your business thrive with limited funds and turn your small budget into a big success!

In this episode you’ll hear:

(1:08) How Alice Kim launched Elizabeth Mott on a shoestring budget.

(3:57) How Alice tapped into her network to cut costs and find creative solutions.

(5:05) How to tackle research and development without breaking the bank.

(6:47) Five budget-friendly tips for effective market research.

(8:48) Why having a co-founder or a solid support system can make all the difference.

(9:25) The benefits of being resourceful and scrappy.

(12:10) Why focusing on the journey is just as important as reaching your end goal.

(14:19) Why prioritizing your tasks can help you navigate the startup hustle.

(15:38) How being scrappy can give you the time and space to get your business off the ground.

Key Takeaways:

1 - Start Small and Lean: Sometimes starting with a smaller budget can actually work to your advantage. It forces you to be resourceful and manage your funds wisely, which can lead to a more stable and sustainable growth. As Alice Kim showed, being scrappy and smart with your money helps you stay in the game longer and allows for gradual, but solid growth. It’s not about having everything perfect from the start; it’s about making steady progress with what you have.

2 - Build a Strong Network. By leveraging connections for storage and logistics, and negotiating better deals, Alice saved money and resources. So, don’t underestimate the power of your network—they can help you in many ways. By making and nurturing relationships, you can find cost-effective solutions for storage, logistics, and even manufacturing.

3 - Test Before You Invest: Caroline Castrillon shared several cost-effective ways to understand your market: 1. Get Direct Feedback by engaging with potential customers at events like farmers markets or conferences. 2. Try Pre-Sales to test interest in your product without having to invest in inventory upfront. 3. Use feedback from friends and family as a starting point and conduct surveys. 4. Utilize Social Media to get a sense of what people are talking about and to ask your followers about their preferences. 5. Analyze what similar businesses are doing to find gaps and opportunities and to understand how they're marketing their products.

4 - Have a Support System. Whether it’s a co-founder or a strong network of mentors and supporters, having a solid support system can make a big difference. Both Caroline and Alice agree that having people who believe in you and your vision is crucial for overcoming the ups and downs of entrepreneurship.

5 - Embrace the Journey. Entrepreneurship is about more than just reaching your end goals. It’s also about enjoying the process and learning from every step along the way. It’s going to be a tough and long journey, so don’t get too focused on the destination; instead, appreciate the journey and the growth that comes with it.

00:00:01

Andrea Marquez: You've got your idea and you're ready to start your business but there's one thing holding you back, money. It might seem like a hurdle, but sometimes starting with a smaller budget than you anticipated can actually be beneficial.

00:00:15

Caroline Castrillon: In terms of increasing your chances of success, it's not really about the money because you can blow through a big budget very quickly. It's more about how you manage it, and so I always encourage people to start with a smaller budget and go lean because then you're going in with less risk and then as you make money, you could just put it back into the business and it's a slower growth process, but it's a much more stable way to go.

00:00:45

Andrea Marquez: That's Caroline Castrillon, a career coach and founder of the Corporate Escape Artist, and today she'll be talking to us about starting a business with a smaller budget. Hi. I am your host, Andrea Marquez, and This Is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon.  

Today, we'll get into how to start a business with a small budget. One business owner who went down the scrappy route and came out on top is Alice Kim, the founder of Elizabeth Mott, a Korean beauty brand. Before she bootstrapped her business along with her husband, Vira, Alice was in New York. Both Alice and Vira, who at the time was her boyfriend, had the entrepreneurial drive, but they didn't act on it until the 2008 recession.

00:01:36

Alice Kim: I think sometimes crisis or world events will kick you into that. We were in New York during the 2008 recession, so we're like kick the can down the road in the corporation, so it really ignited for us to start our business. Then we're like, “ Okay. It's now or never.” We wanted to own our own brand, do it the way we wanted to do it.

00:01:58

Andrea Marquez: At the time, Alice was working on her first business, Elizabeth Mott.

00:02:02

Alice Kim: 2010, this is before social media, before K- beauty, Korean beauty was a thing. So I brought back beauty products from Korea that I thought were very high performing, that were not really available at the time in the US. So we did both quit our jobs, not at the same time, but relatively close. I went first because I made less money, so maybe within a six- month span and we went all in.

00:02:27

Andrea Marquez: But Alice and her husband went into this with a plan. They needed a fallback just in case things didn't work out.

00:02:34

Alice Kim: So we gave us a year. We've started the first six months in New York where we live in Soho, but the burn rate was really fast. You know in New York, things are extremely expensive. So we're like, “ Okay. We need to conserve the money.”

00:02:48

Andrea Marquez: So Alice decided to move to Hawaii where her husband Vira is from. They stayed with her in- laws and continued working on their business.

00:02:57

Alice Kim: And we really just saved and saved. We just did what we could to save money. We were young. I was much younger than two. We had the energy and the stamina to just keep going.

00:03:08

Andrea Marquez: Even though moving to Hawaii elevated some other financial burden, it brought on another challenge.

00:03:14

Alice Kim: If we wanted to live and operate the business in Hawaii, we couldn't ship here because it's just too expensive and shipping out just didn't make any sense. So in the beginning, make those contacts, try to cash in those referrals. Like anybody that you know. We borrowed space in the mainland, in la, I knew some people who had warehouses where we could store our stuff, and I think that really helped the business because you have inventory you need to pay for rent as cheap as you can get it, so being able to find storage and logistics. Now we use a third party logistics, but that took a lot of our, I think efforts and time in the beginning trying to set that up.

00:03:52

Andrea Marquez: That's one way to be scrappy with your business. Build a network that can help you out. We always hear that relationships and connections are everything in business, so it's great to see an example of what that would look like when you're starting out and developing connections also helped Alice in manufacturing.

00:04:10

Alice Kim: You could try things in small batches, try to negotiate. If somebody's like, “It's a $50,000 investment to do this.” Nothing's in stone. Try to find someone that'll give it to you for half or half of half or just say, “ I'm good for this.” We're all people. You just need to find someone who will understand your vision and just give you a little bit of a break in the beginning. And I've definitely had so many of those people that are so memorable and really help the business get to where it is today. I think a lot of people talk about mentors, as like these people who are very experienced and give you all this advice and wisdom. I see mentors also as those people who gave you a chance in the beginning.

00:04:50

Andrea Marquez: Building those contexts is so important and I want to take a few steps back and talk about research and development. How could you do that on a small budget?

00:05:00

Alice Kim: I think that a lot of sampling, a lot of trying out your competitors. I mean really the old- fashioned way. Now there's a lot of AI tools too. You can get data based off of bestsellers, things like that. Those are very important and very helpful. I think it's great that those exist and so figuring out what are people buying and just getting inside the heads of consumers and then just being really curious.

00:05:28

Andrea Marquez: Figuring out your target audience is essential. Caroline Castrillon, young career coach and founder of the Corporate Escape Artist says that not understanding your target audience is one of the biggest mistakes she thinks entrepreneurs make when they're starting their first business.

00:05:42

Caroline Castrillon: It's tempting when you're starting a business to want to serve everyone all the time, but it's actually a better practice to narrow down your audience. So the more narrow your audience is, the easier it's going to be to find those people wherever they are so that you can market to them and then ultimately sell your product. So that's a big common fear in the beginning for entrepreneurs. When I was starting a coaching business, just general career coaching, instead of getting more specific in terms of corporate professionals that want to make the leap to entrepreneurship, but it's easier to find those people. It's also easier to do market research before you launch and really get to know your audience.

00:06:28

Andrea Marquez: Market research doesn't need to break the bank. Here are a few budget friendlier, but effective ways you can understand your customer and test your products. One, get in front of your customers.

00:06:40

Caroline Castrillon: It gives you an opportunity to A, sell, and B, get real- time feedback on your product and what they like, what they don't like, what they'd like to see in the future, those type of things.

00:06:50

Andrea Marquez: You can do that by going to farmer's markets or conferences. Two, consider doing pre- sales.

00:06:57

Caroline Castrillon: So pre- selling is a great way to test because you don't need to have any inventory or even a product developed. You can put up a launch page, you can promote it, market it, get feedback on it, and then just tell people it's coming in the future and gauge what kind of interest you're going to get. If there's not a lot of interest, then you know that you might need to move on to a different idea or get feedback to see what these people do want to hear about. And then there's always surveys. You can survey people easily.

00:07:30

Andrea Marquez: Three, leverage your friends and family.

00:07:33

Caroline Castrillon: That's like a built- in source of feedback. Even though they may or may not be your target audience depending on the product or service, it's still a good way to get feedback

00:07:42

Andrea Marquez: Four, use social media.

00:07:44

Caroline Castrillon: You can use it from a listening standpoint just to get a sense about what people are talking about out there, what they'd like to see and they don't like, and then asking your followers what they like and don't like.

00:07:56

Andrea Marquez: And five, look at what your competitors are doing, which is something Alice also talked about.

00:08:02

Caroline Castrillon: See if there's similar products or services out there, people that are going to be targeting the people that you're going to be targeting so that you get a sense of who else is out there, how are they marketing themselves, what are their price points? You might even be able to get some ideas about how you'd like to approach your business.

00:08:21

Andrea Marquez: Another thing that helped Alice and her husband is going at it together.

00:08:25

Alice Kim: World husband and wife team where there's two of us. So it really might be a little easier than if you were a solopreneur, you had a partner that's not your spouse or whatnot.

00:08:34

Andrea Marquez: But if you're going at it alone, make sure you have a good support system.

00:08:39

Caroline Castrillon: You really have to have people around you that believe in you more than you believe in yourself sometimes because there are a lot of ups and downs. It's not a straight line. There's good days and bad days, but the passion is what keeps you going, but also the people around you that believe in you.

00:08:53

Andrea Marquez: So as long as you have passion and support system, having a smaller budget doesn't necessarily mean you can't continue to grow.

00:09:01

Alice Kim: Saving the money, bootstrapping, being scrappy, just allowed us to buy more time to stay in the game because in the beginning you don't have those big wins, you don't have these huge pos and orders and all these reviews or whatnot. So I think being able to buy the time, so you make those contacts or you meet those buyers or whatnot, that was important for us and so we decided to just keep our head down and play as long as we could. And for us that was not using money and just being able to bear it through until we had some traction. And you feel that momentum.

I think most entrepreneurs are like, “ It was a viral this or I had a press mention or an influencer picked it up, a celebrity or something.” You can feel when it has that momentum, you can feel the demand. You're a small team or yourself will know all the orders you have to fill or figuring out the next steps in your supply chain. So those are exciting problems to solve because then you're like, “This thing is moving.” It may not be taking fire, but you're like, “Okay. This is something.”

00:10:05

Andrea Marquez: And one of these moments where Alice felt the momentum was 10 years ago, around a week before her wedding day.

00:10:13

Alice Kim: So we have had a mascara, it's called, It's So Big. I remember we did a IPSY, I don't know if you're familiar with that beauty subscription box, but you don't have that marketing resource. So for hundreds of thousands of people to look at your product at the same time is very, very powerful and to convert as well for customers. So I remember we did this sampling campaign, I think it was like 150, 000 customers, and then all of a sudden we saw 2 orders, 5 orders, 10 orders, and then we're like, “Okay. We can manage this.” It was like maybe 100 at the end of the day, something like that.

And then I think we were getting married that week, and I know we were for sure because I remember I was in my dress just packing the last 10 orders. I was like, “I'm just going to tape up the bottom so that…" We didn't have staff, I had family members. I'm like, “The auntie can come in later and fill these, but I'm just going to do these.” And I remember both of us, he was in his tux, I was in my dress and we were just taping up boxes, but that was so fun. I mean it was just definitely one of those things you don't forget and that's the momentum where you're like, “Okay. I'm fine in my wedding dress, taping up boxes and filling these orders.”

00:11:22

Andrea Marquez: I love that story and it's so clear to me that Alice is focused on the journey and the process, which Caroline says is important to avoid burning out.

00:11:31

Caroline Castrillon: If you focus too much on the end goal, you're not going to enjoy the process as they say, “ It's about the journey, not the end destination,” because once you get to that end goal, you have to have a new goal. And then burnout. It's really easy to burnout as an entrepreneur, especially starting out because you are so passionate, you're going to want to work 24/ 7, but you're going to have to temper that with wellness activities just to make sure that you don't burn out because if you do, then it's going to be difficult to continue to grow the business and to think clearly in ways that will help you get to that next level.

00:12:12

Andrea Marquez: Alice, knowing what you know now, do you think there's anything you would've done differently?

00:12:18

Alice Kim: We were not as aggressive on the advertisements. I think especially as a D2C company, that could have grown us a little faster. We were so focused on the product and getting the product right. I think still that is the most important, but I think a little bit more on ads, more information on ad agencies and just that relationship, influencer strategies, things like that to get the message out. We were not as prepared or strategic in those ways, so I would've invested the dollars and the time.

I think a lot of times people say it's not just money, especially if you're a small, small, so two of you or you're a solopreneur. I think that the time aspect is just as important if not more, because it's like how much of your day do you spend on this? If you have families and you have to take care of stuff, we were doing this 10 hours a day, two of us, so that's 20 hours. So that's a combined force that we were able to do, but time is your biggest resource and I would've split up my time a little bit more, so it wasn't only focused on the product side.

00:13:19

Andrea Marquez: And prioritizing is something that Caroline says is really important when you're just starting out, especially if you have a limited budget.

00:13:29

Caroline Castrillon: Obviously you're going to have limited resources, so you're going to have to wear a lot of different hats and you're going to have to be really good at prioritizing because you can't do everything all at once. The thing I like to highlight for people is you got to remember of the non- sexy line items.  

People when they think of business expenses, they think of marketing and advertising and agencies and logos and branding, all that pretty design stuff. But you got to think about health insurance, if you aren't getting that through some other means. Taxes, it's not just what you make, but it's what you have left over. So you have to budget that in.  

And if you're going to incorporate it's like an LLC or something like that, you might have some incorporation fees, maybe some legal costs, website expense. So putting up a website, chances are you're going to need one. It's important to remember those other line items and try to keep your costs low.

00:14:33

Andrea Marquez: We covered so much today, but if there's one thing you should be taking away from this episode, it's this.

00:14:39

Alice Kim: Buying enough time is really the best, maybe advice that I could give because you have to figure things out. What you think when you start is your company is probably not even 50% true. So it's a constant editing process of what you thought you were going to be doing or what you thought people would love or what you thought could put you into retirement is not going to put you into retirement. So I think that having the drive is the first thing.  

Grit, tenacity, all those things that you got to keep going. Mentally just keep going. It's so much harder than when I worked in my day job. If you don't like being uncomfortable, don't do it. It's so much of your own blood, sweat and tears. But I think the reward is this, yes, financial freedom in the end, but it's that personal freedom. For me, it's being able to express myself creatively through the products and giving people what I think is different and unique and innovative from somewhere else, like Korea, for example, or Hawaii.

00:15:34

Andrea Marquez: Money is a topic a lot of people shy away from, but Caroline and Alice dove into how you can see success with a smaller budget. We covered a lot in this episode. If you missed anything, don't worry, we've taken notes for you. You can find them at www. smallbusiness. amazon/ podcasts.  

Don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode, and I'd love to know what you think. So send us an email at thisissmallbusiness@ amazon. com, or leave us a review on Spotify or Apple Podcasts with your thoughts.  

Maybe you'll get to hear your review on the show like this one from Marie Tree, “ Love it. Has provided great insight on how to overcome problems when starting, and great inspiration.This is a must listen podcast for those with entrepreneurial aspirations and those with small businesses wanting to grow and learn.” Thank you. I'm glad you're feeling inspired.

That's it for this episode of This Is Small Business, brought to You by Amazon. Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta luego, and thanks for listening. This Is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.

Want to learn how to turn your cultural heritage into a successful business idea? Just ask Conchita Pleasant, the founder and CEO of Nefertiti's Secrets, who looked at Ancient Egyptian remedies to create a hair care line. Conchita opens up about the struggles of battling breast cancer and how it led her to start her business. Learn how to conduct effective market research through direct feedback, the importance of pivoting, and how to turn obstacles into opportunities and empower yourself and others along the way.

In this episode, you’ll hear:

(01:22) How Conchita’s breast cancer diagnosis became a turning point in her entrepreneurial journey.

(05:10) How Conchita utilized feedback to improve her formula.

(07:15) How Conchita started to mass produce her product.

(09:04) How Conchita’s brand aims to uplift customers and the significance of history to her and her customers.

(11:14) How you can replicate Conchita’s success by drawing inspiration from your past.

Key Takeaways:

1 - Embrace Your Roots. It's so important to know where you come from. Conchita talked a lot about how her cultural background shaped her business. If you connect deeply with your own history and culture, it can really guide you on where you're headed and help you share something truly unique with the world.

2 - Listen and Learn. One thing Conchita did was get a ton of feedback on her hair care products from different people. By really listening and making changes based on what they said, she improved her product. So, whatever you’re working on, make sure you get lots of input and be ready to tweak things.

3 - Stay Flexible and Adapt. Be ready to pivot and make changes based on feedback and market trends. Being open to change can help you conquer your fears and reach new heights.

4 - Empower Your Customers. Conchita’s brand is all about making people feel royal and worthy. Think about how your business or project can uplift and empower others. It's not just about selling a product, but about making your customers feel amazing.

5 - Build a Support Network. Conchita relied on mentors, chemists, and hairstylists to develop her product. Surround yourself with supportive people who can offer advice and feedback. A strong network can make a huge difference in your success.

00:00:01

Conchita Pleasant: Culture is so important. It's just important to know where you came from and to connect with who you are to know where you're going. I would say to dig deep, find that thing that resonates with you, and share it with the world.

00:00:17

Andrea Marquez: I am your host, Andrea Marquez, and This Is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. It's August, which means it's Black Business Month.  

Black Business Month started quite recently in 2004, an engineer slash entrepreneur named Frederick E. Jordan struggled a lot to get funding and financial backing for his company, so he teamed up with John William Templeton, the president and executive director of a scholarly publishing company, and together they started a yearly celebration to address issues that Black entrepreneurs face and to bring attention to all the successful Black-owned businesses who beat the odds.  

Today we'll be talking to Conchita Pleasant, the CEO and founder of Nefertiti's Secrets, a business that sells natural hair care products inspired by the Ancient Egyptian Queen Nefertiti. We'll discuss the inspiration behind her brand, the challenges she faced along the way, and how she managed to turn to ancient remedies to develop her product. Conchita's entrepreneurial journey starts with a breast cancer diagnosis in 2011.

00:01:33

Conchita Pleasant: That was pretty devastating because I had a young daughter and it was just a really sad diagnosis because you have a child and that's something so serious, and so I had to go through that journey of trying to save my life. They told me that the chemo, so I decided to go ahead and go through with that, which to be honest with you, I didn't want to do it, but I knew I had to.

00:01:55

Andrea Marquez: Thank you for sharing that. I feel like a lot of powerful stories start with a cancer journey. My mom has cancer and it isn't an easy journey at all. She started chemotherapy recently and we had to shave her hair off and seeing her go through that is just... I'm so sorry you had to go through that.

00:02:17

Conchita Pleasant: I wasn't as brave as your mom to shave it all off. So I waited and that was the most traumatic thing that ever happened to me. So it just came up and as I was shampooing one day and it was just all just bald back there, and so I went through that phase of depression because this... Sorry, I get a little choked up when I talk about it because it's this sensitive, but I went through a little bit of depression because I was not only fighting for my life, it was an aggressive cancer and I was just so used to having all my hair and I lost 18 inches of it, and so I was attached to it, to be honest with you, and I had to go through this point where I'm just like, okay, I got to find a solution.

00:02:59

Andrea Marquez: You don't have to apologize at all. Everybody's cancer journey is, regardless of what they look like, they're going to be hard, and something that can seem trivial as hair in our daily lives turns into something so significant and symbolic. When you're going through cancer, I don't think people usually think about this unless they're going through a similar journey. Your hair is almost like this part of your identity that you rarely think about until they tell you you might have to shave it off.

00:03:30

Conchita Pleasant: Exactly, exactly. That is exactly what happened, and I was thinking to myself, well, it's not going to go away, but of course, life happens and you all of a sudden don't have hair and you have to live through it. And I was wearing wigs and I was really going through it because the chemo makes you depressed as well.

00:03:49

Andrea Marquez: For four months after Conchita started chemo, the doctors told her that her hair would grow back in two months, but when the time passed, nothing happened. So Conchita decided to take matters into her own hands.

00:04:02

Conchita Pleasant: I drew from one of my favorite Ancient Egyptian queens, Nefertiti. When I was younger, I had to write a bio on her and it just empowered me. It just inspired me to see how she was such a beautiful and powerful queen, and I felt like it did something for my self-esteem. It stuck with me, so I said, “Let me go back and check in some natural remedies from the ancient Egyptian times.” Bought books and everything, and I started putting together a product and using aloe, moringa, which they found in King Tut's tomb. I mean, I really dug and I found some good information and I put those ingredients together and started using that product on my bald head. It was surreal to have something that you put together and I said, “Oh, I need to share this with the world.”

00:04:55

Andrea Marquez: Conchita used to work in the hair industry, not with formulating products. That was new territory for her, but she knew a lot of hairstylists, so she created samples of her product and sent them out to get some feedback.

00:05:08

Conchita Pleasant: And I gave it to different hairstylists from all ethnicities, and I waited for their feedback because I wanted a product that can actually work for all ethnicities. I didn't want to leave anybody out. Then started getting feedback, and I was told that at first, it was like maybe seven out of 10, I said, “No, I have to get this perfect.”

00:05:26

Andrea Marquez: So she went back to the drawing board, started working with another chemist to perfect her formula, then sent it back out to get another round of feedback.

00:05:34

Conchita Pleasant: And those samples that I was giving out, those people were saying, “Can we have more? Can we have more?” And so all 10 of them loved the product, so that was just a great indication that it was time to go to the next level.

00:05:47

Andrea Marquez: And how did Conchita's product jump from a seven to a 10? She asked questions like, why wouldn't you buy this product? And listened to what her customers wanted.

00:05:58

Conchita Pleasant: When they told me what it was, well, it didn't make the hair as soft as I would want to or it was a little heavy, and so I just started tweaking it with the chemists and we maybe took out some things, added some more things. I actually use a special formula, a special blend that's not like heavy oils because I don't want the products to weigh the hair down, and so we just work with that.

00:06:22

Andrea Marquez: By the way, she was handling all this while she was battling cancer and undergoing treatment.

00:06:28

Conchita Pleasant: I would literally go to the chemist the next day after chemo, and that's how passionate I am about this.

00:06:34

Andrea Marquez: That's so inspiring to hear because I know seeing it from my mom, it's so exhausting.

00:06:39

Conchita Pleasant: It's exhausting.

00:06:41

Andrea Marquez: Good days and bad days is what we call them, right? And in the world of business, it seems like you just have to power through a lot. Right?

00:06:50

Conchita Pleasant: Exactly.

00:06:52

Andrea Marquez: After Conchita perfected her formula and got hairstylists with different backgrounds and hair textures to give her product their stamp of approval, she decided to start mass-producing her product.

00:07:02

Conchita Pleasant: The chemist I was working with, he saw what I was going through. He saw my passion and he actually helped me. He's like, “ You don't have to start off with a large amount. We'll start you off with a couple of hundred pieces.”

00:07:13

Andrea Marquez: So Conchita goes to a distributor for professional hairstylists.

00:07:18

Conchita Pleasant: And he said to me, “ Well, we already heard about your product.” And I'm like, “How is that?” He's like, “Those stylists that you went to my salespeople have been talking to them and they said,”  Please get Conchita's product because it works. “And I'm like, “All right, wow.” So he ordered that day, he gave me a nice order and I was like, “ Wow, I don't have product for this order.” And so that was the beginning of me actually mass producing, and actually, it was perfect because it's hard to have a door. Sometimes, you have the idea and then you mass produce and who do you sell to?

You have to try to push a product that doesn't have a track record, but at the end of the day, I was just so blessed that he said, “Hey, give me like 24 cases,” and they were case packs of I would tell him 24. I had no idea what I was doing. To this day, hairstylists really loved this product, and that's really what got the brand going because once you have been endorsed by hairstylists, it really, I mean, it helps the brand take off. Since then, we've been creating new products and also pivoting and changing when I need to.

00:08:28

Andrea Marquez: That's such an important thing to be able to pivot and change when needed, especially since the beauty industry is so competitive and if you don't adapt, you'll probably get left behind. So considering that, and of course everything that you were already going through, did you have any fears and doubts about your business while you were working on it?

00:08:50

Conchita Pleasant: I think the fear just went away, honestly. Once I saw how great this product was and I found a need, and I met the need because if they felt like this product was so great, then that meant to me that there was an opening there. I really didn't worry about the competition because I feel like I had something unique to bring to the world, and that was my assignment.  

So that's the thing. You just have to find the need and not so much worry about the competition. And I had a couple of great mentors along the way that gave me advice, things that I needed to change, to fix with my packaging because it's good to do assessments and ask questions and do surveys to find out what you need to do to pivot and change when you need to.

00:09:36

Andrea Marquez: Conchita's story is empowering, which isn't surprising since empowering customers is at the core of Nefertiti's Secrets.

00:09:45

Conchita Pleasant: The basis of this brand is based on royalty. So when I was growing up, I was teased so much. I thought it was the ugliest thing, walking really. I had them little freckles and I was different, and back then freckles weren't really that embraced like they are now, and so between that and the name, Conchita, they were teasing me left and right. It did affect my self-esteem, and when I did that bio on Nefertiti that was out the door, I just became so empowered. So this is what I want for my customer. I formulate products to help empower them to feel great about themselves. I want them to remember their worth, so when they see that logo, I want them to feel worthy of having the best of everything in life.

00:10:38

Andrea Marquez: I love that Conchita looked to the past to find a solution for a problem a lot of people face today and if her story inspired you to do something similar. Here's some advice from Conchita.

00:10:48

Conchita Pleasant: Culture is so important. It's just important to know where you came from and to connect with who you are to know where you're going. I would say to dig deep, find that thing that resonates with you, and share it with the world. Fear is going to come in. I can't say that I didn't have fear. I faced a lot of fear in this journey. Fear of failure at times. Fear on every level, but my advice is to be fluid, be open to change when you need to and break fear by moving forward because once you break fear, you can break into your next level.

00:11:29

Andrea Marquez: I'm feeling empowered after talking to Conchita. It seems like the essence of her brand is helping other people, whether that's through her wonderful story or from getting results from her products. That was Conchita Pleasant, the CEO of Nefertiti's Secret. That's it for today's episode.  

Don't forget to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode, and I'd love to know what you think. So send us an email at thisismallbusinessatamazon. com or leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or now a comment on Spotify.

Here's one that NDL9366402 left recently on Apple Podcasts. I listen to this a lot. I love the host's voice. Awe, thank you and that it's not too complicated, inspires me to start my own business. I'm so happy that we've inspired you. That's what we're here to do, and I'd love to hear about your business when you do start it.  

That's it for this episode of This Is Small Business, brought to you by Amazon. Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta luego, and thanks for listening. This Is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and store production by JAR Audio.

Ready to kickstart your entrepreneurial journey or looking for a refresher on some essential tips? Join us as we dive into key insights from Season 4 that will help you start, build, and grow your business. To kick off Season 5, we're revisiting some of the most valuable advice from experts and successful small business owners like Amy Porterfield, Kat Norton, Jenna Kutcher, and more. Whether it's mastering your mindset, pinpointing your target audience, networking like a pro, or cracking the social media code, we've got you covered.

In this episode, you’ll learn how to:

(02:05) Cultivate a Success-Oriented Mindset

(03:02) Network Effectively for Business Growth

(04:24) Define and Reach Your Target Audience

(06:13) Build a Comprehensive Marketing Strategy

(07:44) Leverage the Power of Email Lists

(09:55) Implement Effective Social Media Strategies

(13:36) Stay Persistent and Keep Moving Forward

Key takeaways:

1 - Keeping a positive mindset is so important for anyone diving into entrepreneurship. Remember, you’re definitely not alone. There are so many communities and resources out there that can offer support and inspiration. Surround yourself with people who lift you up—it can make your entrepreneurial journey a lot smoother and a lot more enjoyable.

2 - Networking isn’t just about handing out business cards—it’s about building genuine relationships. Think about what value you can bring to others and keep your network alive by giving back, making referrals, and supporting fellow entrepreneurs.

3 - Take some time to really understand who your ideal audience is. How can you communicate with them in a way that resonates? And don’t be afraid to stand out – Sharing your story and being authentic helps you connect with your audience on a personal level. Also, make use of email lists—they can be one of the most effective ways to engage with your audience and drive sales.

4 - Instead of trying to do everything at once, focus on what works best for you by analyzing what your competitors are doing. Choose a few strategies and stick with them. Consistency is key to building and maintaining your audience, so don’t spread yourself too thin.

5 - Each social media platform has its own vibe, so tailor your content to fit each one’s strengths. Keep an eye on trends, but don’t let them completely dictate your brand’s identity. Managing your social media effectively means staying true to your brand while adapting to each platform’s unique features.6 - Entrepreneurship can be a rollercoaster, with plenty of ups and downs. Stay committed to your vision, learn from your experiences, and don’t be afraid to push through the tough times.

00:00:01

Andrea Marquez: It's not easy, but you do it anyway. You do it because you believe in it so much that the thought of not trying at all feels a lot worse than trying and failing. Every day you question if you made the right choice, if taking the leap was the right decision. But then you wake up to a new day and a new challenge that you must overcome. You realize there's no other option. You have to overcome whatever stands in your way to make this successful. And if it isn't, the next idea will be or the one after that, because you're an entrepreneur and this is what you do. This is Small Business.

Hi, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez, and This is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. Welcome to our fifth season. In the past two years we've conducted over 100 interviews with entrepreneurs and industry experts. We've won awards, reached significant milestones and it feels like we're just getting started. To kick off this season I want to share some key lessons from previous seasons, or as I like to call it, lessons I wish they taught us in school.

I've learned a lot as the host of This is Small Business, so choosing a handful of lessons from a whole season filled with knowledge wasn't easy, but I ended up picking out the lessons that stood out to me the most. They're what I believed to be essential for aspiring entrepreneurs and small business owners to know. And you could always listen to the episode if you want to dig deeper into some of these takeaways.  

Whether you're new to This is Small Business or returning after a break, here's a rundown of key insights you should know that'll help you start, build and grow a successful business. We'll be covering a bunch of topics today from getting into the entrepreneurial mindset, to figuring out who your audience is, to networking. Let's get started. Mindset is everything for an entrepreneur. One common piece of advice from our guests is to remember you're not alone. There are many communities of like-minded people and resources available to support you. Amy Porterfield shared how she shifted her mindset during the early days of building her business in the episode, Seven Steps to Accelerate Your Small Business Growth.

00:02:20

Amy Porterfield: I got it all through podcasts and blogs and getting into mastermind groups with other people so that I could surround myself with people that will inspire me and also support me. So, if you are just a lone wolf and you just want to build your business online and don't get support or help from anyone, it's going to be a rough road. We need that support in order to make sure that we keep moving forward when it gets tough.

00:02:42

Andrea Marquez: Maybe that's why you listen to the This is Small Business podcast, to hear stories of people, just like you, who are on a similar journey. Another way to find a community is through networking, which can sometimes feel like a chore and isn't as easy as just showing up at a conference, walking up to people or sending cold emails or DMs. It can be hard, but it's essential for growth. Robbie Samuels discusses this in his episode, How Networking Can Help You Build and Grow Your Business.

00:03:13

Robbie Samuels: The reframe is to think about what you bring. It's not that we're looking for clients, it's that we have something of value that would help people, but if we're not willing to talk about our services, if we're shy about it, then there are people who need us who don't know. They don't even know this is a skill that's out there that can help them.

00:03:32

Andrea Marquez: As an ex-wallflower myself, Robbie gave us so many helpful tips on how to make networking easier. We all have something to offer, but even if you don't believe you do yet, building a network is still beneficial. Just make sure you maintain your network to get the most out of it.

00:03:49

Robbie Samuels: If you pay in every month an insurance policy and you don't really want to need your insurance policy, right? The hope is that you'll never use it, but it's there if you need it. And that's the same thing with our network. You want to give back regularly to your community whether that's one-on-one conversations, supporting and sharing, making referrals and making introductions.

00:04:11

Andrea Marquez: When building a business, it's crucial to define your target audience. Who wants what you have to offer? Amy Porterfield gave us a little insight on how you can figure that out.

00:04:21

Amy Porterfield: If you can be your avatar just a few years ago, you'll really understand how to put together your marketing message because you lived their lives, you understand them. The people who need you will find you even if you put a stake in the ground. If your message resonates with them but doesn't fit perfectly, that's okay. If they like what you're saying and they find value, they will find you. So, don't be scared to put that stake in the ground. I promise you it's going to help you get known and seen in a very noisy online world.

00:04:49

Andrea Marquez: And speaking of the noisy online world, make sure to put yourself out there and share your own story. It's something that Indya Wright said is essential to building an audience in her episode, Why Public Relations Matter.

00:05:04

Indya Wright: Everything you do consider the story you want to tell, and that's going to reflect in the content you share online, where your product or service is available, the people you serve. That all ties to the story of your brand, right? The reality is, it really truly is about the story, and more often than not people are more interested in the people behind the brand than the brand itself. It's less about the product or service, more about the person and the mission, and I feel like that's across the board. Any industry, any brand, any goal, who are you serving? Why are you serving them? I feel like that's the hook that makes things newsworthy.

00:05:42

Andrea Marquez: By identifying your target audience, you'll gain a clear understanding of how to communicate with them and recognize who else is engaging with them. Then all that's left to do is reach them. A lot easier said than done, but Liz Downing gave us some advice on where to start in, How To Build Your Marketing Strategy.

00:06:00

Liz Downing: There are lots of steps to take, including what your competitors are doing, identifying what channels are successful for your competitors. That's probably the easiest hack, is look at who you're going to compete with and how they're doing it, and then figure out how you can do it better.

00:06:15

Andrea Marquez: This knowledge helps you choose the right channels and prevents you from spreading yourself too thin with strategies that might not work, and I know entrepreneurs love to do it all and experiment with different strategies, but as Amy points out, that might end up hurting your business. Here's Amy talking about some of the biggest mistakes she thinks business owners make.

00:06:36

Amy Porterfield: One of them is trying to do too many things, too many offers, too many messages, where people are very confused what they need to come to you for in order to get the results they're looking for. I think another thing is that a lot of business owners, because we're trying to do so much and wear so many hats, we lack consistency. It's very normal and human to not be consistent with these things. The people that are winning are consistent with what they're doing and they do very little, but they do it really well.

00:07:05

Andrea Marquez: Consistency is key. It takes time for your audience to find you, but once they do, you want to make sure they keep coming back for more. But standing out online can be difficult. There's a ton of competition. So, last season we talked about a very powerful tool that allows you to speak directly to your customer, email lists. Jenna Kutcher shared some insights on email lists in her episode, The Growth Tool That Can Help You Increase Revenue: Email Lists.

00:07:33

Jenna Kutcher: Social media is meant to be the handshake. Email is meant to be where you sell. When people go into their inboxes, they are much more poised for purchase than when they're on social media. People are on social media to be distracted, to be entertained, to be educated. They're not there thinking, “I'm going to pull up my wallet.”  When you think about an email list and serving it, it is a lot easier than you're making it out to be because instead of screaming to the masses like you are on social media, you are reaching out to the people who have already exchanged something valuable to them to get something valuable from you. These are the people that have literally raised their hand and said, “I want more of what you've got.” And so, you are speaking to the people who are already curious and invested in what you've created, and so it is an entirely different conversation than the one that you're trying to have or the one that you're trying to use to sell that is likely falling flat.

00:08:25

Andrea Marquez: This was a powerful lesson for me because I hadn't considered how emails cultivate an engaged audience. As a customer myself, I sometimes feel bombarded with sales pitches in my inbox, which can be off-putting if it's constant or coming off as salesy, but Jenna gave us some great tips on how to promote your products without making customers feel like they're being sold to.

00:08:44

Jenna Kutcher: What does the consumer truly want? Maybe they want to feel more peaceful, maybe they want to feel beautiful, maybe they want to feel calm, and so when you think of it in this way, it totally takes out this desire to be like, here are the five product features that people might not even know why they should care about those features, and it helps connect them to their true desired end results while giving them value again for free and then kind of being this breadcrumb on the path to purchase of like, “ Oh, wow, they actually have a solution for this. I might not be ready to buy it now, but when I get that email two months from now and I'm in a different position as a purchaser, I'm ready to pull the trigger.”

00:09:20

Andrea Marquez: It's not just about selling. Providing valuable resources that align with your identity, product, values and messaging and maintaining consistency can make a significant impact. Another essential tool is social media. So many customers, myself included, use it to look up brands and products before deciding on what to buy.  

So, being on social media is important for businesses, but it's a lot of work. Managing all the different platforms and keeping up with the ever-changing trends can be time-consuming and demanding. Don't worry though, because we've cracked the social media code in the episode, How To Use Social Media To Reach Your Audience.  

In that episode, Sahra Nguyen, the founder of Nguyen Coffee Supply, talked about her approach to posting on different platforms.

00:10:06

Sahra Nguyen: Each platform is very unique in what works on one platform may or may not work on the other platform. I think there are instances where we can kind of use a piece of content as the root and then iterate, cut it up and repurpose for different platforms. Sometimes that works and sometimes it won't, and sometimes you'll just need a complete different content strategy altogether. We spent a lot of time just comparing content strategy and performance and data on both Instagram and TikTok, and what we often found was a piece of content that did well on TikTok would not do well on Instagram and vice versa, and then we would dissect the reasons why. Well, really short form, just like six seconds do really well on TikTok, but that may not be as engaging on Instagram because Instagram, I think, there's a little bit more space in bandwidth for maybe 15 seconds. I know it sounds wild, but 15 seconds, it makes a big difference. 15 to 30 seconds, up to 60 seconds for that more extended education of storytelling.

00:11:02

Andrea Marquez: And even though it might be tempting to follow trends, I know all the big brands do it. If you miss out on a trend, it won't hinder your growth. Trends can actually sometimes work against you.

00:11:13

Sahra Nguyen: And at times, it could be decentering in our brand identity, brand voice, brand mission. Now, we're at a place in a marketing strategy and juncture where we're not focused on trends. If something comes up and we feel really inspired and we feel like it's aligned with another pillar, we can engage, but we're no longer actively following, actively tracking and quickly creating content to hop onto that trend.

00:11:36

Andrea Marquez: But even if you choose not to follow trends, it's still a lot of work, especially if you're on multiple platforms. You're already trying to run a business, so adding more tasks can seem daunting. But all you really need to plan and create a month's worth of content can be three days. Kat Norton, also known as Miss Excel, explained how she organizes her content and how to use social media to reach your audience.

00:12:02

Kat Norton: So, for me, in terms of managing my energy, I'll have days where it's just my creative flow state day, so I'm doing all different activities that are tapping into that right side of the brain. So, I'll be going through and taking a walk in nature, meditating and staying out of my more analytical mind.  That's where you got your giant to-do list, your iced coffee, you're knocking things out, and I stay more in that flowy seat, and then I find that the ideas more easily just flow right through. I mark them down, and then on another day it's more my performance day, where I'm getting all done up. You don't have to get all dressed up every day. You can just really go through and take that one day, make your setup. And then editing days look totally different too.  So, really separating it out by the different energy types helps you capitalize in each of those areas to be at max capacity versus being 50% all flowy and then trying to get on the camera and then... It really helps to separate it out that way for myself.

00:13:01

Andrea Marquez: We covered a lot and yet there's still so much more lessons to come. If being an entrepreneur is your passion, there will always be challenging days. Building a business and sustaining growth can be tough, but there will also be amazing days, days when you can't imagine doing anything else. We've touched on mindset, networking and identifying and reaching your audience. Just a few things that make up the much larger world of entrepreneurship. To wrap up, I want to leave you with one of my favorite lessons: keep going.

00:13:33

Kat Norton: Go for it. I started with, I think, two boxes of 50 paddles each. Then, obviously, it grew really quickly from there, but you can always do that and have an attempt at it.

00:13:43

Indya Wright: Do it. I say, do it. You can't go wrong. You can't go wrong.

00:13:47

Robbie Samuels: Just going to work and getting a paycheck is so much easier, right? It's just so much easier. Did I want to try something hard and hope that it went well? Yeah, that's what I wanted to do, and that's where I ended.

00:13:59

Liz Downing: Get comfortable with no. The more you hear, no, the more you can also hear, yes.

00:14:04

Brian L. Shields: There is a lot of opportunity and there's never a substitute for just trying.

00:14:10

Jenna Kutcher: While we might use the word small in front of your business, no matter where you're at on the journey, I just want to remind you that what you're doing is actually really big and brave and bold, and I don't want you to ever forget that.

00:14:26

Andrea Marquez: I'm thrilled about everything we have lined up for this season. Be sure to subscribe to stay updated with new episodes releasing every Tuesday on your favorite podcast platform, and if you enjoy the show, please consider leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts or now a comment on Spotify. Your feedback helps us continue delivering valuable small business content. If you want to know more about any of the topics we talked about today, make sure to give Season Four a listen.  

And as always, if you missed anything, don't worry, we've taken notes for you. You can find them at www. smallbusiness. amazon/ podcasts. Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez, hasta luego, and thanks for listening. This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by JAR Audio.

Are you trying to figure out if a rebrand is worth the high price tag? Just ask actors turned entrepreneurs David McGranaghan & Julian Miller, co-founders of McMiller, a company that creates games designed to make you laugh, who went over-budget to rebrand their business. “Strong design [...] turns a four-star review into a five-star review, and I think that's definitely what we've learned, and it's money well spent [...] I would encourage people to put money into design," says David.

In the season finale of This is Small Business, you’ll hear how Julian and David’s love story sparked the idea to start their business, the challenges and benefits of being married to your business partner, and how design can elevate your products. They’ll also talk about the importance of taking it slow when you’re first stepping into entrepreneurship.

In this episode you’ll hear:

(01:23) How David and Julian met and started Mcmiller

(06:11) Why David and Julian wanted to get into entrepreneurship despite being professional actors

(09:55) The challenges and benefits of starting a business with your romantic partner

(12:28) How you could use reviews to improve your products(15:12) How design can elevate your products

(22:36) How success can hurt your business if you’re not prepared for it

(23:54) How to add sustainability into your business – Andrea mentions two This is Small Business episodes about sustainability. If you want to learn more, check out this season's bonus episode “How your business can have an impact” or an episode from season 4 called “How to Grow a Sustainable Business.”

(25:58) Julian and David give us a look into their future goals and their upcoming game

(26:55) Julian and David emphasize the importance of taking things slow when you’re starting your business – it’ll help you avoid mistakes and give you time to work on the best version of your product

Key takeaways:

1 - Starting a new venture may seem daunting, but drawing from past experiences can be invaluable. David and Julian leveraged skills acquired from their acting careers like being adaptable and figuring things out on their own when they were building McMiller.

2 - Balancing a business with your life partner could be challenging. David and Julian say that you need to draw clear boundaries between your work life and your personal life so your business doesn’t take over your relationship.

3 - Despite the challenges, there are loads of benefits to working with your partner. David and Julian point out that they’re able to be more honest with each other and don’t have many arguments about money since the money is all going to one account.

4 - Reviews are a strong resource for your business. David and Julian use positive reviews as a reminder of their "why" to keep going when times get tough but they also use the negative reviews as feedback so they can improve their products and better understand what their customers want.

5 - Design isn't just about aesthetics; it's a cornerstone of success. A well-thought-out design can significantly impact user experience, brand perception, and ultimately, business growth.

6 - At whatever stage you are in your business journey (but especially if you’re just starting out) David and Julian emphasize the importance of taking things slow. When you do that, you’ll be able to spot mistakes earlier in your journey and create a better and more solid foundation for your business that can help you achieve long term success.

00:00:01

Andrea Marquez: We've reached the last episode of season four. What a journey. I've talked to so many inspiring and diverse small business owners and experts this season. It really got me excited about everything entrepreneurship. From networking to buying a business, we've covered a lot. Aside from all the valuable lessons learned, I loved hearing everyone's stories, what inspired them to get started, how they navigated difficult situations, why they kept going, and how they were able to turn an idea into reality.

So today, we'll be talking to some really cool guests about their own business journey. Their names might be a little familiar. Oh, and this episode is twice as special. It's not only the season finale, but it's also an episode dedicated to Pride Month, so I hope you enjoy it.

I'm Andrea Marquez, and this is Small Business, a podcast brought to you by Amazon. In this special episode, we'll be digging into a business that started out of love, McMiLLER. We'll talk about how the founders grew their business, the importance of good design, and how to walk the tightrope that can be working with your life partner.

00:01:23

David McGranaghan: We are McMiLLER, and we invent and mass-produce party games, board games, card games, and our games are designed to make you laugh. We really try and pack each box full of belly laughs, and something we're really proud of, and something we really strive towards, is making sure each game is multi-generational. We want granny to be laughing just as much as the kids. Today, we've sold over a million units, and we've had over 350 million social media views across TikTok, Facebook, and Instagram. So yes, we've started from very small to quite a big company now.

00:02:05

Andrea Marquez: That's David McGranaghan. He co-founded McMiLLER with his partner, Julian Miller. You might've heard of them.

00:02:13

Julian Miller: We both trained in London and both lived there for 15 years and worked as actors, Dave mainly in theater. He was in Jersey Boys, playing one of the Jersey boys in the West End, and he was with the Royal Shakespeare Company. Great show. And then, I did more television and film. I was in Spy with Melissa McCarthy, which was a hoot to film. And then we met each other–

00:02:39

David McGranaghan: On a blind date.

00:02:40

Julian Miller: ... on a blind date. Yeah.

00:02:40

David McGranaghan: In London, yeah.

00:02:42

Julian Miller: I know. It was so cute. We were young and innocent, and we fell in love with creating games, and it slowly spun into a business.

00:02:53

Andrea Marquez: So McMiLLER was born out of their love for each other. I mean, the name says it all.

00:02:59

David McGranaghan: My surname is McGranaghan, which is a terrible name for a company. There's so many As and Ns in it. My keyboard has worn away the A and N button. Then you've got Julian Miller. We were just a bit like, “Oh, McMiller?” We went with it for a while, and we met our branding team, were like, “You sound like you sell timber.” We were like, “Deal with it. We're not changing our names.” They're like, “Okay. It just doesn't really sound like a game company, but…” We were like, “Deal with it. It's done now. We're not changing our names.” Yeah, it's really just both our surnames thrown together.

00:03:29

Andrea Marquez: I love that you stood your ground and didn't change your name. I definitely didn't associate it with timber. We'll get into branding and design in a minute, because that's super important, and you do it so well, but first, I'd love to know what it was like meeting each other. Julian, you mentioned in our earlier conversation that you were looking to meet someone?

00:03:52

Julian Miller: I'd never really been in a long-term relationship, and I was like, “I'm turning 30. I need to start making some moves here.” And yeah, it was perfect timing.

00:04:01

David McGranaghan: Yeah, and we both had no money, so we couldn't go out for dinner. That was back in the days where they would still be happy hours, so you could get a drink for a pound in London. For six quid, I think we had a merry old time, and that was it. It was definitely sparks. I was really impressed at how creative Julian was. He was doing a lot of his own short films. They were completely off-the-wall, unapologetic, so out there, and I was so blown away by that. And i think that's where we linked up.

00:04:30

Andrea Marquez: Then the idea to start McMiller came soon after.

00:04:36

David McGranaghan: We would go to each other's families at Christmas and we'd always play a board game. And families coming together, big groups of people, there's alcohol involved, there's children running everywhere, so I would say that the games we were playing always felt a bit lacking. They were too complicated, they couldn't keep everyone's attention span, they weren't funny, and we both always felt that it was such a shame to get all these people together for that one time a year and to have a substandard product.

00:05:07

Andrea Marquez: David and Julian decided to take matters into their own hands and started to create their own games. They developed some fun challenges that entertained everyone, and it was just something they did on the side until...

00:05:21

David McGranaghan: They started to become so popular that folks were like, “Hey, can we get a copy of that? Because I've got this other party coming up and I'd love to take it.” So all of a sudden, we're starting to write instructions, we're starting to put things in a box–

00:05:33

Julian Miller: For free.

00:05:33

David McGranaghan: Yeah, for free, and we were like, “Hang on, this is taking a lot of time. We don't have a lot of money right now. We should start selling these products,” and I think that's how we organically fell into going, “I think we have a business here. I think we can actually sell these boxes.” Filled with laughter is how we were pitching it. That was basically a very organic way that McMiller was born.

00:05:55

Andrea Marquez: So they identified a gap in and created a solution to address it. It was perfect timing, because they were both in need of a side hustle.

00:06:03

David McGranaghan: We were both actors, and one deciding thing for me was I got a really fancy job in the West End. It was a really nice play, I got a really nice part, and I looked at my paycheck and I went, “Oh, and I'm one of the lucky ones. This is a classy job, and this is what I'm getting.”

00:06:22

Andrea Marquez: And acting, as fun as it is, isn't always that stable of a job.

00:06:26

David McGranaghan: So much is in everyone else's hands. You are jumping through hoops for agents, managers, cast, and directors. We both were like, “We want something that is ours and that we are in control of.” I think we were subconsciously seeking some kind of–

00:06:41

Julian Miller: Something, yeah, that could also scratch the itch of still being creative. Because sometimes it's really hard when you're acting and you're like, “Is this going to be sustainable for the rest of my life? I hope so, but what else can I do and do I want to do that still fulfills that urge to be creative?” And i think everything came together where we're like, “Oh, okay. This can fulfill all those things for us, and also, hopefully, can give us a sustainable business.”

00:07:11

Andrea Marquez: Plus, like me, they both come from a family of entrepreneurs. When one person in your family is a business owner, the drive to want to create something you own is definitely higher.

00:07:22

David McGranaghan: My mum used to run a pub in a nightclub in this very small fishing town in Scotland, tourist little town, and Julian's dad used to run an accountancy firm back in Holland.

00:07:34

Julian Miller: My grandma was an entrepreneur in the '50s, '60s. She was the first shop owner in that part of the Netherlands where I'm from.

00:07:42

David McGranaghan: Julian's grandpa was a stay-at-home dad, which was quite a big thing back then. It wasn't that common. When you also grow up with family that are running a business, you go, “Well, if they can do it, I can do it.” That might have been wrong. They might have been like, “No, you can't do it.” But I think growing up in that environment too gives you a slight entrepreneurial kind of– (cross talk)

00:08:03

Julian Miller: Passed down, yeah. Gives you a bit of a leg up, so we've been very fortunate that we have that support around us.

00:08:09

David McGranaghan: Yeah, and i think that all came together in some kind of melting pot along with the opportunity of us accidentally coming up with games that were quite unique, I think, at the time, for sure. It felt like doors opened and we just walked through them. I think that's the right way to put it.

00:08:24

Julian Miller: Still a lot of hard work, though.

00:08:26

David McGranaghan: Yeah, there was some locks in the doors, but we kicked them down.

00:08:28

Andrea Marquez: Oh, gosh. It's definitely a lot of work, and I can tell from all the conversations I've had on the This is Small Business podcast, and from seeing how hard my family of entrepreneurs work, growing up with two entrepreneurial parents, I saw them as workaholics. I remember thinking as a kid, “Why would I want that life where I'm even working on weekends and I'm on call when I'm on vacation?” And then ironically, here I am getting inspired and motivated by other entrepreneurs, and now I'm like, “Should I be doing this?”

00:09:08

Julian Miller: Yeah, we sometimes think about like, “Do we want children? How would that fit into our life?” It's really difficult to fit that into your life when you run a business together as well. So, yeah, there's some trade-offs there, for sure.

00:09:22

Andrea Marquez: So tell me more about that. What is it like working with your partner?

00:09:28

Julian Miller: Challenging.

00:09:31

David McGranaghan: You're always trying to find the balance between your work and your private life between the two of you. It's good to have some rules, and they might be not the hardest of rules, but they do help for us. For example, what we try and do is not talk about work after work, because it's really easy for the workday to bleed into your private life, of course.  

So we draw the line there, and then mainly when we can't help ourselves and do talk about work after work, it's soft stuff. It's fun stuff. It's like, “Oh, what can we do in the future, and what products could we potentially develop?” But we try and steer away from all of that and we do that by, for example, just exposing ourselves to other things. We go to cinema, we go to concerts, we go out for dinner with friends.  

So as much as we then can experience other things, we have other things to talk about that are not the business, because I think that's the hard thing because everything then can become about the business. So those things help, and just be kind to each other. And also, remember during the day when you're working together that you're also still married, and that you can be nice.

00:10:43

Andrea Marquez: But it's not all challenges. David says that there's also benefits to having your life partner be your business partner.

00:10:49

David McGranaghan: You're going to be honest with each other in a way that when you're with a business partner, you sometimes have to sugarcoat stuff rightly or wrongly with each other. You're just like, I don't like that. That's not going to work. Or I think you can be a lot more open. And of course because we're married, everything's going into the same account. So not one argument is about money,

00:11:10

Julian Miller: Never, no.

00:11:10

David McGranaghan: ... or responsibility or anyone not pulling their weight, which I know can obviously be a big bone of contention with other companies. So I agree that it can be all-consuming, but I do think the plus side is that you do eradicate a lot of the noise and the nonsense that can definitely get in the way of working with someone towards a goal.

00:11:33

Andrea Marquez: I never really thought about that, that the money is all going to one account, so it's easier to avoid arguments there. But setting boundaries is important because entrepreneurship can sometimes seep into your daily lives and you don't want it to consume your relationship. And when things get tough, as they do in every small business owner's journey, David and Julian often look at all the positive reviews their games get to keep going.

00:11:56

David McGranaghan: Sometimes we get stuff where it's like we've had a really hard year as a family, some stuff has happened. This is the first time we've laughed together as a family. And even now I'm feeling a bit like, “Oh,” to know that you've kind of worked so hard on something and given someone that is a really rewarding gift too. So it's not all lovely and cheesy. We are of course running a business, but at the same time, to know that the service that you're providing is that is very heartwarming too.

00:12:21

Julian Miller: Yeah, And having our nieces and nephews play our games is always amazing.

00:12:26

David McGranaghan: And they're so young that they have no idea that it's our games, which is also great. So when we use it to test on them, they're like, “This is terrible,” and you're like, “Oh, God, it's really terrible,” because they can't sugarcoat it, their children. But they're so honest. But when they do really enjoy it, you're like, “Oh, that's cool.”

00:12:44

Andrea Marquez: But they don't just pay attention to the positive reviews. Julian says that negative reviews are just as important.

00:12:51

Julian Miller: Sometimes, the only feedback that we get from our customers is reviews, and sometimes people leaving comments on social media pages. So these reviews are vital because it's great feedback and we learn more about our products, and now we can improve them.

00:13:07

Andrea Marquez: Reviews are an essential part of your business. We dig into more reasons why they're important In an episode called How to Build Your Marketing Strategy. It's episode 55 of This is Small Business. We also talk about how to get started with your marketing strategy in that episode, so make sure you give it a listen. We've been talking about how Julian and David started McMiller, and how they navigate being married while running a business together. Now, let's get into how they produce their games.

00:13:37

Julian Miller: So a lot of the time, we make the first prototypes ourselves. So it doesn't cost us a lot of money. We can then make changes really quickly, we can print out some new stuff. We would then look at, okay, what is the price of this? How can we get it manufactured in a way that it's still economical for us? And then we start getting samples from factories, not necessarily the final production sample, but close to, that we then test out, and then obviously we get quotes, and we decide on which factories we're going to go with.  

And a lot of the time we work with two or three factories for the same product, because one does the box and the card elements, the other one does some of the components. And then finally, we get a production sample. But when we get the production sample, we are already at the point that we're going to place an order.

00:14:24

Andrea Marquez: Wow. And how do you come up with the design?

00:14:26

Julian Miller: Well, David is more on the design part of everything, and we have learned so much about design and how important it's, but you're really pushing that in a direction that is really good for our company.

00:14:38

David McGranaghan: We start, like a lot of people, with no money and a lot of time. So, time-rich, cash-poor. And I sat on YouTube and I taught myself Adobe Illustrator, and I learned the absolute basics of how to throw stuff together, how to edit stuff because I couldn't afford graphic designers to do all the small tweaks, or I need it for this, buy this Facebook, but then this, buy this for Instagram. And then all those small announcements, I was like, I need to learn this myself because I can't afford. So then we started out, no idea, no training. So I would hire a logo designer to do the logo and then an illustrator to do the illustrator and then a graphic designer to put it all together.

00:15:17

Andrea Marquez: And when they managed to make a little more money, they decided to rebrand McMiller.

00:15:22

David McGranaghan: Someone came in and did our whole company brand in, and they were more expensive than we wanted to pay. Every time we looked at their stuff, we were like, imagine if that was us. That would change everything. That would change the game for us, literally

00:15:35

Andrea Marquez: They decided that this rebrand was worth the expensive price tag. So even though it was beyond their budget, they found a way to pull it off by splitting the cost over 10 years.

00:15:47

David McGranaghan: And it changed everything because they were so good at branding.

00:15:49

Julian Miller: And also they took us on a journey. They really taught us, in the process, about branding and about graphic design.

00:15:56

David McGranaghan: Yeah. What they did is they asked us a bunch of questions. And again, we were talking about we really want to make people laugh, we really want to do this. And they were like, “You sell laughter. That's what you sell.” That's where we start.  

So, you sell laughter, you sell giggles, you sell tee-hee- hees, you sell hardy-har-hars in our box. That's where we start. And from there it was a feeling, and that's how the fonts got picked, that's how the colors got picked. We want it to feel like Willy Wonka, but games. We want it to be an ice cream shop, like this is fun, but for us, it's called kidult.

So you want adults to love it, but also kids, which is a really hard thing to do. It can go very junior very quickly, and people like you are a bit like, “Oh, that's something I would buy a niece or nephew. That's not for me and my mates.” But then if we go to adult, mum isn't going to buy it for the kids. So it's a really fine line that we learn. We're like, “Oh, it's the dance between the two.” As always with business, it's a balancing act.

00:16:53

Andrea Marquez: Working with a branding agency also made them realize how much thought actually goes into branding, especially since people can instinctively buy products based on the design.

00:17:04

Julian Miller: And it was such a great learning curve for us, which really transformed our company.

00:17:09

David McGranaghan: Yeah, and that changed it for us. And I think like you're saying, and like Julian's saying you buy someone a game or a toy as a gift, it's a reflection of your taste. You want to make sure you are giving them something that makes you feel cool, feel on brand, feel trendy. And that's what we learned from the rebranding.  

And ever since then, we're like, “Oh, okay, we should hire people who handle every part of the game. The text, the font, the illustrations, and it's more about the feeling you get with a game.” And I think that's really where we've turned a corner. It's really just giving you more a feeling and all these other pieces come together to go, “Oh, this feels slightly nostalgic but very futuristic.” Yeah, so that's where the design comes, because like every business, there's a lot of competition out there, so you've got to stand out. And I think that is where we're trying to become a design-led company, so that we're just a little bit cooler than everybody else.

00:18:03

Andrea Marquez: That's a lot of thought process behind it. But I really respect and admire that because you're right, of course the product has to be good, but design gets people in the door first.

00:18:15

David McGranaghan: I completely agree with that. I think design is tough, because like everything, if you want good design, these designers cost good money because they're in demand. And when you're starting out, unless you're very lucky, you do not have the money or the experience to do that, and we've kind of organically stumbled across this.  

And now we're like the extra money that you pay for that design takes that cardboard box and all the elements inside it and makes it feel expensive. It really is mind- blowing what that can do with two products that have got the exact same materials inside them. Strong design turns a four star review into a five star review. And I think that's definitely what we've learned, and it's money well spent, I think. I would encourage people to put money into design.

00:18:59

Andrea Marquez: Plus, good design could lead you to a lot of success. That's what happened with McMiLLER.

00:19:06

David McGranaghan: We've got a game coming out in July, it's called the Catnip Game, and our designer, gym went very '90s, very internet, very cats. They've all got steam coming out their ears. It's bonkers. And that's exactly what the game feels like.  

We're just starting mass production now, but we've already got an order, and it is from the design that the main buyer was like, “Whoa, this is bonkers.” And we were like, it's amazing. And off the back of the design, I do feel confident that customers are going to come in and be like, “ I have never seen a game like this. This is the kind of game I want to give my friends.” So I think that's confirmed our beliefs that investing the little money that you have in design is worth it.

00:19:44

Andrea Marquez: I am sold. Design is a lot more important than you think. So if you feel like your brand or product is in need of a refresh, consider investing in a good designer or rebranding your business, it might help you grow. David mentioned that he had to teach himself design, but that wasn't the only thing that they had to learn when they were starting with McMiLLER.

00:20:10

David McGranaghan: I would say that given our performing background, they didn't teach as much about profit and loss sheets at musical theater school, or shipping, manufacturing, being a manager, all those little things that we had no idea what we were doing. And as it turns out, that's actually 90% of the core of running a business. If you don't have that slick, you don't have a business.

00:20:35

Julian Miller: It's funny because lots of people are like, “Oh my god, you run a board game company. You must be playing games all day. It must be so much fun.” I'm like, yeah, 5% of the time, maybe, if we're lucky.” We are actually developing games. The rest of it is running a business, which we had no idea about how to do that.

00:20:53

Andrea Marquez: So they had to learn a lot from scratch. But being actors kind of helped them navigate that.

00:20:59

David McGranaghan: You're kind of thrown in the spot a lot. “Hey, can you do this accent? Can you play this kind of character.” I guess I'll have to figure out. And you become quite resourceful, and I think that skill, thankfully, was transferable. We were like, I'll get on YouTube. I'll figure it out. I'll read a book about it. And then also again, we're lucky because we have entrepreneurs in our family not running a business like this, but I think the foundations of every business is quite similar, and we could get some guidance in there.

00:21:27

Andrea Marquez: But even though they had a lot of support and access to resources to help them build and grow their business, David and Julian learned the hard way that even success can be an issue.

00:21:39

Julian Miller: We had a TikTok video they went super viral. Within a week, we had 40 million views on it. So we started selling out within a couple of hours, and then we had to shut everything down because we just couldn't fulfill those orders and we were just being over-ordered. So it took us about four or five months to just fulfill all those orders and just make sure that we were back in a place where we felt comfortable to re-enter the market.

00:22:09

David McGranaghan: And I think also, as amazing as that was, we got kind of cocky after that success. You kind of started to think, “ We've got it.” And we ordered a lot more games, and of course it was too much and, we had to warehouse them for too long, because all of a sudden we weren't going viral anymore. And I think that was another challenge for us is to be a bit like, “Okay, don't get too carried away too.” Yet again, like everything, it's about balance, and just be like, “Why don't we just go down the middle route,” I think, and I think–

00:22:37

Julian Miller: Let's make it easy on ourselves, as easy as possible. Let's not pile the pressure on by having to sell all these games.

00:22:47

Andrea Marquez: Julian and David mentioned that they're selling laughter, and they do it so well, but they wanted to do more with their business.

00:22:57

Julian Miller: So, obviously, we are a small company, and we want to be sustainable, but you can't do everything right in the moment. So we're like, “We have to focus our energy on one particular part of the business that we can improve on.”  

So we see, in the board game world, that a lot of plastic is still being used. Obviously it looks great, it's cheap, you can make really fancy stuff with plastic, but that is not sustainable. Plastic doesn't necessarily need to be a component of games. Can we be creative enough to find other ways of using different materials instead of plastic but still have a wow factor? And we're like, “Yes, we can do that.”

Use natural materials such as rubber, cardboard, wood, wool felt, and in order to get something that still has a wow factor, for example, we create a game called Fire in the Hole, and it comes with this beautiful pirate pop-up ship. When you open it up, people are like, “Oh my god, that is amazing.” And it's made out of really sturdy cardboard and felt balls, and it's done really well, and it's been a challenge, but it's also pushed our creativity in a really nice way.

00:24:13

Andrea Marquez: From all the conversations I've had with entrepreneurs, I'm noticing that many small business owners are trying to move towards making their products more sustainable. We've talked about sustainability on This is Small Business.  

So, if you want to learn more about sustainability and how to implement it in your business, you should check out this season's bonus episode, How Your Business Can Have An Impact, or an episode we made last season called How to Grow a Sustainable Business. Julian and David mentioned a new game that they're working on called Cat Mitt, so I obviously had to ask about it.

00:24:47

Julian Miller: So yeah, this summer we are launching our new game, the Cat Mitt game. It comes with a rubber ball and these cat mitts and it's a very frantic game in which you have to knock treats out of this treat ball and feed your little kitties. So the idea for our company is that every year we launch a new game, just one or two games. We don't want to overwhelm ourselves with too many products, and we want every product to be special and well thought out. But the ultimate goal, I think for us, is to become a household name. We want you hear our name, McMiLLER, to stand for laughter, multi-generational fun, sustainability. So we're aiming high, and we want to be a worldwide brand, and move into more stores and more countries.

00:25:29

Andrea Marquez: Those are ambitious goals, and I also really love that they're trying to take it slow. That's something Julian and David say is essential when you're trying to start a business.

00:25:40

Julian Miller: Slow down, take your time, don't rush, because it's really easy to get carried away by it, because excited, and you want to make changes, you want to build something up, and sometimes it's good to just reflect and maybe take a little bit of time before you jump into it.

00:25:55

David McGranaghan: Yeah. I think entrepreneurs in general are very ambitious. We have egos. Otherwise you wouldn't sit there and go, " I think I can do that better," or " I can pull it off." I think, like Julian's saying, if you can take your time and get it right the first time, then you're free to do everything else after that. I think that is from experience of us getting everything wrong the first time, and spending lots of money and time–

00:26:22

Julian Miller: Unpicking.

00:26:22

David McGranaghan: ... trying to unpick and go back to basics and fix it. And it's so hard when you're impatient and ambitious. I think every entrepreneur shares that. No matter what industry they're trying to go into, they want it all in six months' time. I would say it's long-term thinking, not short-term. And that's something–Yeah.

00:26:44

Julian Miller: And sometimes we still struggle with , you know .

00:26:45

David McGranaghan: Yeah, we do. You need a bit of both. You need the hare and the tortoise. Sometimes you can't just be one of them. You need that drive to get there and then learn from your mistakes. But the tortoise wins the race, Julian.

00:26:57

Julian Miller: It does.

00:26:57

David McGranaghan: Slow and steady.

00:26:59

Andrea Marquez: Instant gratification is a big thing nowadays, so I think that's an important reminder. Take your time when you're building your business or creating a new product. When you do that, you're less likely to make mistakes, and like Julian and David, you'll eventually be successful, and hopefully, that comes with a lot of shared laughs. I've learned a lot from Julian and David and their journey with McMiLLER.

If you missed anything, don't worry, we've taken notes for you. You can find them at www. smallbusiness.amazon.com. And while you're there, you can also check out the rest of the season. I spoke to so many inspiring small business owners and experts, and I've realized that there's still a lot more to learn, so I can't wait to see you in the next season of This is Small Business.

I love hearing from you. So let me know what you thought of our episodes or any topics that you'd like me to explore next season by leaving a review in Apple Podcasts. It's easier if you do it through your phone. You can also reach out to us at thisismallbusiness@ amazon. com. That's it for the season finale of This is Small Business, brought to you by Amazon. Make sure to subscribe and tell your friends about us by sending them a link to this episode.  

Until next time, I'm your host, Andrea Marquez. Hasta luego, and thanks for listening. This is Small Businesses is brought to you by Amazon with technical and story production by Jar Audio.