Ep 4: Cora and Stefan build organic loyalty

[00:00:02] Stefan: So for us, when we started out, we were like, hey, we don't have enough. You know, we were still like, our corporate jobs were paying to keep the lights on, do all this. And we were taking any extra money and putting it into the business for, for products. But then we were like, Hey, if we can't get out, if we can't go, advertise or put up a billboard or do a tv commercial, what we could do is connect with people in the community. We can show up at events, we can partner and we could do various things to amplify that message. And I think you always want to try to find like-minded individuals ,be it, if it's brands, it's companies, or just people that help and that resonate with you. 

[00:00:42] HOST: Hi I'm Andrea Marquez -- and This is Small Business – a podcast by Amazon. I'm on a mission to learn all I can about what it takes to own and operate a small business so that maybe one day -- I can start my own. So, on this show -- I'm making it my "business" to find out everything I can about what it takes to turn a great idea [00:01:00] into a small business by asking small business owners themselves and focusing in on the pivotal moments, decisions, and challenges they are going through. I want know how to think scrappy and small -- and of course -- how to grow and succeed. By the end of this episode, I will recap everything we learn today into tangible, actionable takeaways for you to use in your small business journey. I've got some great guests today andI can't wait for you to meet them.

[00:01:30] HOST: Cora and Stefan Miller are a dream team, in more ways than one. A happily married couple and parents to a young boy named Kade, they also run a successful company together, called Young King Hair Care. Their mission? Simple. To "redefine male grooming for the next generation of Black and Brown men." Cora is the Co-Founder and CEO. She has 10 years of experience as a leader in corporate social responsibility, [00:02:00] program development, operations and communications. Stefan is a seasoned marketing leader with marketing and sales management background. For over a decade, he led high performing teams in multiple industries and Fortune 100 companies.

Right now -- Young King uses organic social media marketing to great effect -- to grow their company, sure, but ultimately -- to talk to their community about boys and men of color, and how we think about self-care. Organic social media marketing is a strategy that helps you connect with potential customers by sharing content that reflects your brand’s personality and voice. And I think that the better way to understand organic social media marketing is when you see it in reference to paid social media marketing. Paid social media marketing lets you target audiences that you know will resonate with your brand the most and in a competitive environment where brands are all vying for customer attention, [00:03:00] this is precious real estate. However, not everyone has the budget to invest in paid social media marketing, especially small businesses. Young King, is a small business that has chosen an approach that meets their capabilities and goals which is to connect with their customer in an organic way that builds a lasting relationship.  

I want to learn more about how they do it. When it comes to marketing and advertising, how can a small business get the biggest returns on their limited funds? Let's meet Cora!

[00:03:38] Cora: I was busy working my corporate job. I was a VP for external affairs for United Health Group, so I just was climbing the ladder, kind of just doing my thing. And then of course they always say, when you have children, your whole world and your perspective on life changes and that's exactly what happened. I had my son Kade, in January, 2017. [00:04:00] And he was born with all of this hair. And it's crazy cause I wanted a boy so badly cause I didn't want to have to deal with hair. But then I get this boy that has these just gorgeous curls. And so when he was about, six months, his texture started to change and I was really looking for products to help me really help style his hair. And it's interesting, when I was looking for him, it struck me that there weren't any specific hair products that were tailored for young boys, of color. And so when you think about the natural hair industry, everything is very female marketed, female scented, female design, like everything is very focused on young women, but nothing that really speaks to a young male of color. And as my husband says, I'm a forever do gooder. Like my background is in social impact. That's what I did for United Health Group, so when I see a problem, I'm like we have to fix it. [00:05:00] Like why, why are there not any products where our children, our young men are treated at the forefront versus an afterthought? 

[00:05:10] Andrea: I really, really admire what you're trying to do and what you're achieving already. What would your friends and family say when you would tell them about this idea?

[00:05:20] Cora: When I spoke to family and friends, they were like, "yeah, that's a really great idea." And so they actually gave me the validation to keep going with it. When we first launched, we had such great positive feedback from people that stopped by our booth. People came by and they were like, oh, this is a great brand. How long have you been, you know, in business? And we're like, we just launched a week ago. And they were like, "what?" We're obviously on Amazon, and then of course we have our own DTC channel and we're just continuing to grow. It’s just been a crazy whirlwind journey, but we just feel so grateful for all the support and people that genuinely appreciate our mission and what we're trying to do.

[00:06:00] Andrea: That is big. I mean, Young King is fairly new and it started during COVID as well. So, right now, what would you say is one of your biggest challenges?

[00:06:10] Cora: One of our biggest challenges is obviously with growth. And so what we've done is really focus on building up our ambassador program. So those people that are like die hard, like love Young King, "Ride or Die" for us, really partnering with them to create more content, and kind of leveraging their own channels to reach new people.

We’ve also done more kind of formal, I guess, influencer partnerships. We really didn't have a strong influencer strategy at all, because again, people would just post us and we were like, great, this is great. But now actually being more like strategic about those partnerships, the content and the channels in which we leverage that content? Being able to bring on, an email marketing team to really help us create robust [00:07:00] campaigns and flows. So that once someone becomes a part of the Young King family, i.e.purchases products or, engages with our site, then we can actually, reach out to them. So, you know, we've put a couple of different strategies in place tor eally help us more on the kind of organic grass root front versus relying so heavily on paid marketing.

[00:07:24] HOST: I can really hear the thoughtfulness that goes into the Young King organic social marketing strategy. It's the difference between "letting it happen" and "making it happen." Their organic social strategy sounds like a well-ordered campaign. And there are benefits in both organic and paid social media marketing. When it comes to paid marketing, you’re able to target your ideal customer, reach a larger audience, and drive leads and conversions. With organic marketing, if done right, and as we heard from Cora, when you really take the time to understand your community, it leads to brand awareness and [00:08:00] relationship building. It can take more time and require experimentation, but it’s also worth the investment to be able to retain customers in the long-run and turn them into evangelists. Cora says a lot of this strategy is owed to her husband Stefan, an experienced Marketing and Brand Strategist.

[00:08:19] Cora: So my husband is, Young King's CMO or chief marketing officer. And of course, you'll get to talk to him a little bit later and he'll tell you his background, but he comes from marketing, literally his education professional experiences, all around marketing, and he's done it for some really cool big brands. I always tell people that my husband is my secret weapon because he literally is the one that encouraged me to actually talk to other parents to understand, is this really a gap in the marketplace? And I'm happy now too, because I left my corporate job, in fall 2020, and I was working on the business full-time by myself. [00:09:00] But he recently came on full time in the fall of last year. So now we're a force to be reckoned with together working full-time on the business, him leading all of our marketing efforts, and me doing everything else.

[00:09:15] Andrea: Wow. So the dynamic duo or the power couple, is that what the kids are calling it these days?

[00:09:21] Cora: Yes.

[00:09:22] Andrea: That is amazing that he also went in full time. And so what is it like to work with your spouse?

[00:09:29] Cora: Oh gosh,

[00:09:31] Andrea: I've heard many things across the board cause like my parents would never, like, they love each other, but they could never work together like that.

[00:09:40] Cora: I know people ask us this all the time, but the funny thing is it's actually been really great because, both of kind of our skill sets, and the things that make us who we are and so great when it comes to our professional selves, you know, we didn't learn that about each other until working on the business. [00:10:00]

And I think for me seeing that in him and seeing, the intelligence, the thoughtfulness, the, the, you know, the love and passion that he even has for marketing, he gets so excited. Like he geeks out over, you know, things that I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't even think about this right now. I actually find it, uh, I find myself like even loving him even more to see him in his element. We certainly balance each other out and you know, so far knock-on wood. It’s been great working with him. The only caveat is, is like, then we find ourselves at dinner or we're supposed to be taking a day off still talking about the business, but-

[00:10:31] Andrea: There's no rest from that.

[00:10:33] Cora: Oh my Gosh. He used to work for a major CPG food company. When we would go grocery shopping, he used to walk each and every aisle to understand who was out there, what their packaging was looking like. I said, I'm ready to leave this grocery store. Can you please get out of the aisles right now? But he was just like all in.
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[00:10:56] Andrea: Which I think is key to what you're trying to do with organic growth at Young King. Right? [00:11:00] So like your husband is, is doing his job... he’s going above and beyond, because you want to think about. Since you are leaning so much on organic growth, you're thinking about that word-of-mouth experience and, and going to like the, the start of it. Like, how does someone see the packaging? How do they use it? And so what would you say would be the next step here moving forward, or do you think you want to just stick to this until like the industry forces you to change that strategy?

[00:11:30] Cora: We have a couple different paths, right? Because we were born in a pandemic, literally we launch and then a pandemic happened. One thing that's exciting for us is actually getting back to in-real life events. So a part of that organic strategy is actually showing up in the places in the markets where our customers are at. So big trade shows and these popular festivals and vending events, we're really excited about that. As my husband says, like we're on street team as the founders, [00:12:00] being able to meet people in real life. I think that's the most exciting part of our new marketing strategy.

And then of course, paid ads still play a role. So it's not like we're going to stop doing that, but it's how are we spending it efficiently, and spending it in ways that, are actually impactful? So in real life events, you know, doing more sampling and seeding, partnering more with influencers. I think those elements that we've started to implement, we'll still continue to do, throughout the year.

[00:12:33] Andrea: One of my last questions for you, Cora would be, what would you say has been like a key decision that you've made to take Young King from passively doing well, to like really being in the game now and being competitive and, and taking it above and beyond?

[00:12:51] Cora: Hmm. I would say a kind of a key moment when we were like, okay, Young King, this is, this is becoming a bigger thing [00:13:00] than we imagined, was really, you know, and it's kind of unfortunate, but the season where there was social injustice in June. There was a lot of attention on black owned businesses and black owned brands.

And so because people started to search and seek out black owned businesses, they found us. And then even more so at a time, you know, where, you know, black and brown men were being targeted. And, you know, we felt like this angst, we were a company that was actually celebrating an uplifting young men of color. And so it just all kind of came together where people were like, I want to know more about Young King to the point where we had about, four months of inventory on hand and we got wiped out in six weeks of all that inventory.

It was, you know, sad but incredible. But so then we were like, okay, we need todo this. We need to do this. [00:14:00] We recognize what we're doing for the culture. We recognize the impact that we're having. I even had a man reach out to me, who had adopted a black boy, who had very traumatic experiences. And he was crying to me on the phone saying, you don't even know how much this product has meant to our family. And even helping him get his confidence back and being able to help him do his hair and teaching him what to do in the steps to do it and like I'm here bawling on the phone. And it's so crazy that I even answered that call. Cause I normally don't answer unknown numbers, but he like found me and we were crying together. So it's just like moments like that. That really reaffirm, like we're doing something so great and so powerful for young men of color and that we just need to keep on and keep doing it no matter, the sleepless nights and the exhaustion and the money that we are pouring into this. [00:15:00]

Cause we were bootstrapping at the time too. We're just going to keep going. And you know, here we are two and a half years later, just so excited about the community that we've built, the support and the love that we receive almost every day. And so for us, this is just, it's just the best thing that we could do.

[00:15:18] Andrea: And I think that this message, your story, is what's helping with organic growth and getting creative on social media. Thank you for sharing your story and for being with us today.

[00:15:26] Cora: Thank you so much. I had a great time and I appreciate you just allowing me to share my story.

[00:15:33] HOST: MIDPOINT REBRAND: You're listening to This is Small Business -- brought to you by Amazon. I'm your host Andrea Marquez. On this show, I want to take you guys through my journey of figuring out what it takes to start a small business today by asking small business owners themselves and focusing on the pivotal moments, decisions, and challenges they are going through.

Did you know that more than half of the products sold on Amazon come from small-and-medium sized businesses? Cora Miller, who you just heard, [00:16:00] owns one of the many small businesses selling on Amazon who have tapped into some of the tools and resources offered to help them succeed and grow.

So at this point, Young King has been doing great with organic word-of-mouth marketing. They like to speak to their community of ride or die fans and partnering with influencers who really connect with their product. Their story is great, they are filling in a gap in the market, and they're doing it together, as parents to Kade.

Coming up is the part of the show where I normally try and talk to an industry expert... someone to provide context on the conversation we've just heard with our small business owner. But this time round - the tables are turned. Or at least leveled. Or maybe it's not a table at all. It's more of a living room couch. And beside our small business owner [00:17:00] on that couch maybe with a remote in his hand, is my next guest. Stefan Miller who is a marketing expert and thought-leader who also happens to be Cora's husband and business partner.

[00:17:17] Stefan: Love that. I hope you guys told Cora that, that I'm a "thought leader", so I can use that at home.

[00:17:22] Andrea: We do not want to be the cause of any... (laugh)

[00:17:27] Stefan: (laugh) Ah, okay. And it's on recording, so we're good.

[00:17:31] Andrea: This is a unique experience for us, so I'm excited to be able to talk to the other part of the dynamic duo. Thank you so much for being with us today.

[00:17:41] Stefan: Super excited, super excited. You guys already heard from my better half.

[00:17:44] Andrea: And she speaks your praises, by the way. She really introduced to us to how important it is that you both bring in your specific talents to Young King and how you work well together because you have different strengths and are able to build off of each other [00:18:00] very well.

[00:18:01] Stefan: Yeah, you know, we had never worked together, but it was great to see like how we were able to both bring what our superpowers are and bringing them together and then make an even bigger superpower. So hopefully I'll try to give a little additive, to Cora's side of things.

[00:18:14] Andrea: So let's dive deep into your area of expertise and what you bring to Young King.

[00:18:19] Stefan: So, you know, I've worked at Johnson and Johnson at General Mills, at Coca Cola at Red Bull. So I've been trained to know how to look at how do you stand out. More importantly, it's not just for standing out, but how do you resonate to somebody? And I think, you know, I love the joy of just being able to connect with people and connect to see how can we provide them a benefit. Right? And I think it's, the beauty of Young King's story is that we realized that there was boys and young men of color that were like our son that had been dealing with this problem for so long. So that part has been fun to truly craft a brand in something that is personal for us. I think that honestly [00:19:00] helps us in our organic storytelling because it is our story. We didn't create a product just to go make profits or to go sell it to somebody. It was like, this was fundamentally a need in our household.

[00:19:11] Andrea: So when it comes to marketing and advertising, how do you think that a small business can get the biggest returns with limited funds?

[00:19:20] Stefan: You have to have, frequently, this level of scrappiness with you. And how am I, how can I go and connect with people? Everything doesn't have to be paid but what value can you provide? So for us, when we started out, we were like, hey, we don't have enough. You know, we were still like, our corporate jobs were paying to keep the lights on, do all this. And we were taking any extra money and putting it into the business for, for products. But then we were like, hey, if we can't get out, if we can't go, advertise or put up a billboard or do a tv commercial, what we could do is connect with people in the community. We can show up at events, we can partner and we could do various things to amplify that message. And I think you always want to try to find [00:20:00] like-minded individuals be it, if it's brands, it's companies, or just people that help and that resonate with you.

So, you know, for us, word of mouth was critical. When we were doing and we were developing a product we spent and we surveyed over a hundred parents, right. And when we were going in launch, we, we talked to those a hundred parents and we said, Hey, we finally have created what we talked about and we're going to incentivize you. Like, we can give you a discount and help you really, amplify where you can get in for helping us build this. But then if you share it with your community, you can also benefit.

We activate our community. Right. And that's because we, we have been able to realize by asking and knowing as parents, what is valuable to them? Like, you know, one of the biggest things that's helped us is that we started the brand out by doing a lot of education videos. Because most guys, when we were younger, our default was that we just went to the barbershop every other week to cut our hair off. [00:21:00] So it's one thing to have the tools, but then it's another thing to know, like what do I do with them? All right. So just by educating people about what is hair growth look like? What does being able to have a hair care regimen look like? That's when we were able to provide a value, the consumer that then they was able to say, oh, I need to now find that solution. And then, you know what? Young King can be that solution for you.

[00:21:24] Andrea: So you're, you're working backwards from the customer and really thinking about who that customer is, what their day-to-day looks like and where Young King fit into that.

[00:21:35] Stefan: Exactly. You have to be able to put yourself in that consumer's shoes. And it's, it's funny, it's people always kind of joke, like you have a haircare company and you have no hair. Like when we started out, like when Cora first brought the problem up, I had just thought, cause I hadn't been down in haircare island probably like 10 years. And then I was like, wait, I really thought something had changed. And then I saw the products that were from when I was in high school and college still there. [00:22:00] And I was like, wow, why, why is this still the same? There's been no change. There's nothing representing a new generation. And it was at that moment. And then I was like, I see how we can be a benefit.

And it's interesting. I'll tell you, so one of the things Cora and I are super methodical about is that it's strategy and execution. And I think for us especially as people of color, we come from a community that has a richness of ideas. I mean, just innovative thinkers coming up with solutions. But historically, where we've fallen flat is the execution on it. Right. And I think it's interesting, as, as the world becomes more diverse as we come more inclusive, it's sometimes other people can't recognize the gap because it doesn't impact them. You know, so for us it was, "Hey, no, there's oh, there's plenty of hair care products for men." And it was like, "ah, yes. Have you thought about a boy with textured hair or very thick and coarse hair [00:23:00] or curly hair." And they're like, "oh, wellI just assumed because, I've got insert any large-scale brand name." Right? And it's not sometimes you go and you have to have this curiosity. To your point, you're like, nobody else has done this. Why? Has somebody else tried it? And it's failed. Has somebody else done it, but not done it well. And you just get into this, you get into the why's: why is there nothing? And why did nobody see this?

And it just allows you to get to that deeper and try to get to that root cause to then determine. Yeah, is it an idea or not? And then you're like, oh wait, it might be my superpower. I just figured out something that nobody else saw.

[00:23:36] Andrea: I believe it's called the five whys mental model because it's one of my favorites I've used. I also have a background in marketing and I've worked with marketing agencies, I use it even in my daily life for things like, why am I thinking about this?

[00:23:51] Stefan: Yeah, it's, it's such a great thing and I think, like, for the business, you've got to know that "why" stronger than anybody else, right? Like what, why is your motivation, why is it impactful to others? [00:24:00] Because you've gotta, if you don't know that, then you're just another brand. You might have cool packaging, you know, your product may work. But it's, the greatest brands create an emotional connection while still delivering on performance.

[00:24:15] Andrea: Whenever I'm talking to small business owners, that's kind of the heart of everything, right? Like what's the reason you started and, for Young King, from what I'm hearing, it's tied to your son and something that you struggled with as parents and wanting him to, to grow up and feel comfortable with his hair!

[00:24:34] Stefan: Kade came out with a head full of hair. I mean, full 'fro, um, when he was born. And you realize though, it's, it's realizing the personal, but it's also realizing the larger macro. In the world we live in today, like representation is so key, right? You need to be able to see yourself. You need to know that in any place, any door or space, you command that you are welcome in that like I am supposed to be here. And we know how [00:25:00] the world at times sees young men of color. And it's like, how can we show, how can we show you and give you the confidence to be your full self? Like, we always kind of joke, like we're black boy joy in a bottle as like, you will be able to bring your full happiness, whatever space you go to.

[00:25:15] Andrea: I love that. So I want to zero in, as we start wrapping up here, what would you say are the top tangible tools that you could give to our listeners that help build loyalty, organically?

[00:25:28] Stefan: You heard me talk about community, but you have to activate the community. You know, a lot of times people capture things: Emails, texting, numbers. But they never do anything. They never cultivate the audience. So the number one thing is talk to your community frequently, right? Understand why they are choosing to invest their time. We only have 168 hours in a week, right? Why are they giving your brand time in their life? You have to be an active listener as a brand owner. And then lastly, I would say too, then it's, once you've done those things now, how do you supplement? [00:26:00] Because you can have a balance of, creating that community, understanding their needs, but then how do you surround them? So for us, we do a lot of those things, like, honestly, because we listened to our community, it helped to show us who should we partner with. You know, we heard convenience was a lot, so therefore we went and we're like, oh, we need a launch on Amazon because I do majority of my shopping on Amazon. Because of all the other stresses in my life, I need my products to show up in two days. I just, this is the value that I need.

So having those organic conversations led us to being in the right distribution to again, be a value to our consumer. So, you know, a lot of small businesses, especially consumer products also go and say like, oh, I just need to get in store. Let me get in store. Let me get in distribution. Every single place. Right? And it's really like focus on the need of that community and that consumer you're serving and let them tell you where you should go.

[00:26:49] Andrea: So how do you talk to this community though? What would be the best ways or is it like through social media? Do people even respond to emails and email back? Like how does that happen?

[00:26:58] Stefan: It is crazy. I used to never think I was like, ah, nobody reads emails. [00:27:00] Nobody does these things. And, as you're building your business and I don't know if a lot of people know this, so I'll share it cause it was a shock when I first learned it. But you know, when you're looking and building a healthy business, probably about 30% of your revenue a month is probably coming from loyalty and retention. So it amazes me: SMS messages that we send out. We have live conversations with people on texts that are just like, they text us back, like "keep doing what you're doing, love this."

And you're like, well of course I text everybody else. So if a person feels like they can text Cora and I or Young King or ask a question. Obviously social media plays a large part. So for us, you know, we, again, the way we activated our community is spotlighting. Like if our goal is to change the narrative of the beauty industry, and then largely as the world, what we do is we feature our community. Like, here's a submission from this parent. Hey, here's the dad doing hair, doing these things while cooking in the kitchen. All right. All of these things. [00:28:00] And it's like, let's spotlight these parents and these family and these Young Kings, by helping to uplift. So that just motivates everybody else because we start conversations around like, "oh, my king does this too." or "my king does this." We always say like the YK fam is always invited to the cookout and we are going to have a digital cookout. It might be a text cookout. It might be email cookout. It might be a TikTok cookout, regardless. We always want the YK family to come. Because I always think like in our community, like a cookout is a sign of love, like if you make it you're good. And that's how we feel about the fam. And I think that's the aura we give out and the, and the fun, that like, why people want to be a part of it.

[00:28:39] Andrea: This has been great stuff. Thank you. So, so, so, so, so, so much I loved geeking out on all of these things with you and learning more about Young King, and it has been a pleasure truly to speak to both of you who are doing so much for the community and who are being so innovative and creative, because as you and Cora mentioned, this didn’t exist before and you guys made it happen. [00:29:00] So thank you so much for being on the show.

[00:29:03] Stefan: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:29:08] HOST: Cora and Stefan Miller from Young King are such a strong example of what's possible when small business owners -- who are family -- work to each other’s strengths. My head is spinning with advice about creating community, activating it, and then supplementing it with kindnesses and incentives wherever possible.

So here are some of the key takeaways for building organic loyalty that I’m adding to my small business playbook after speaking with Cora and Stefan:

• I see it in three steps: Understand. Connect. AndCultivate.
• So when it comes to understanding, we’ve heard this before, but it’s important to start with the WHY. Why does your business exist? What gap are you filling in the market? A way to do this is by thinking about the customer. Understand what their experiences are and why they will give your brand their time. [00:30:00] Where does your brand fit into their daily life? Young King invested in surveying their ideal customer. And there are many tools that can help you with focus groups that can help you understand your customer better.
• Then, there are many ways to connect with your audiences in ways that don’t require big ad spends. It’s getting out there and talking to people. It’s going to local markets, reaching out on social media, anything that gives you the chance to introduce your brand and tell your story…like a podcast! It’s all an opportunity. But of course, make sure you have a great story to tell… As Stefan said, the greatest brands create an emotional connection while still delivering on performance.
• SO once you have understand your community, and connected with them emotionally, it’s time to surround them and cultivate that relationship. This is through consistent emails, sms texts, and social media. [00:31:00] And as Stefan told us, people actually read, and respond. Because they are able to connect. Because they are ride or dies. And of course … leverage your fans by telling their story. Feature your community. Meaningful products resonate with people and create evangelists from customers. When you focus on your customer, and telling a great story that resonates with them… building loyalty comes organically.

[00:31:28] On the next episode I will be talking to a small business that’s in the process of scaling from small to medium and is making large waves! Meanwhile, if you like what you heard, don’t forget to subscribe to our podcast so you can stay up to date with new episodes, let us know what you think by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or email us at (thisissmallbusiness@amazon.com) with episode ideas, and tell your friends about us too!

Until next time – This is Small Business, I'm your host Andrea Marquez -- Hasta luego-- and thanks for listening! [00:32:00]

[00:32:02] CREDITS: This is Small Business is brought to you by Amazon, with technical and story production by JAR Audio. [00:32:20]